Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

I heard Cyprus is having triplets

Humanist . . . you really are broody

[zan]

Zany Zany Zan Zan, he didn't screw you on the AP. The AP as was agreed by the two communities was to go to referendum. One side voted yes to it the other voted no. It should be left there.

What I overwelmingly agree with you is that he is not serious about reaching a solution and I will substantiate my coment by saying that since the referendum Mr Papadopoulos has sat idle and has done very little in this matter. Mr Papadopoulos should have presented at the UN headquarters on weekly basis presenting plans and other possible solution to the UN representative. The fact thta he has not done so I beleive he is not ready to see a unified Cyprus. He should have done this despite the fact that Talat is also not prepared or unable to think, speak and act of his own accord without the big fat mama Turkey dictating as a dictator does.

Hope you do not mind but you guys want to leave everything that shows you in bad light "There"... The guy played the normal tricks he plays and did not negotiate the plan properly in the first place and then complained he did not have enough time. What the hell was he doing then and why did he not just ask for more time for such an important issue. Because he wanted to sabotage the plan..Thats why and he tricked the people to take the blame for him.......

[zan]

A solution under EU principels can NEVER DIVEST property rights. And that is the major problem in any solution proposed so far in Cyprus, how to deal with the property issue.

Kosovo as a precedent is a double edged sword. The TCs immediately assume that they are the equivalent of the Albanians, forgetting that the Albanians are the MAJORITY in Kosovo and they are forced to accept the minority rights of the Serbs and others. It is also a great mistake to think that you can bargain non compliance with EU rules, ie Turkey settles Cyprus and the way to Europe opens up automatically. It does not happen that way.

An EU solution will involve accepting and implementing EU Acquis in the local laws of both entities and the Acquis does not allow property theft. Property is either returned or compensated. Furthermore the Acquis imposes freedom of movement for people, freedom of establishment and trade. Talat has already said that such a move will undermine "Bizonality" ie partition, and he does not want it. He is seeking a political deal that will circumvent these provisions and this will not stand in the EU. You cannot allow Germans and Britons to own houses in Kyrenia but exclude Greek Cypriots.

What is more likely is that Turkey is finally waking up to the fact that she is unnecessarily bogged down in Cyprus and wants an honorable way out. A one step move from the 19th to the 21st century. We'll see how things develop in the spring, but dont expect too much.

In short the writer of the article does not know the underlying facts.

Compensation is the only way forward and there are precedents seen in for example Poland where a property was owned and lost by Jews, Germans and Poles.... the resolution there was that the current owner has paid compensation to the previous owners, pretty much the same principles in the AP. So any new attempt at resolving this problem will imo be based on the AP as I cannot see the UN scraping the AP and starting from scratch just for GCs.

Turkey was recommended for their positive steps on Cyprus, so it appears they are ahead of GCs who resounding rejected a UN brokered plan and didnt attept to resolve anything over the past 3 years.

The government bonds are being drawn up now VP and that will be the way forward.

[zan]

In Poland property was lost by people who were nationals of another state to begin with. It was not lost by people who were, are and will remain nationals of the same state.

There is a paradox in any proposition on the property issue and no one wants to face it- and the paradox is simple: if Cyprus remains in the EU, as a unitary, federal or confederal state you cannot under EU rules divest anyone of their property. Secondly ALL EU citizens can own property in ANY country of the EU. You cannot discriminate against any one nationality of the 27 that make up the EU. So you cannot exclude Greek Cypriot ownership in the north, or Turkish Cypriot ownership in the south. The RoC is not at the moment discriminating against TCs while the north is discriminating against GCs.

Solve the paradox and you solve 9/10s of the problem. Now let us hear some new ideas on this, cause the old ones are obviously not going to cut it.

Turkish Cypriots are being discriminated against right now and have been ever since entry into the EU...How do you explain that???

[humanist]

okay, I support him in his attempts to get a NO vote because he felt his community and country would not benefit. You have a point about not asking for more time to negotiate a better deal, within the AP. The rest I cannot comment because I don't know if the people feel blamed for it. I have spoken to relatives who voted yes and those who voted NO at the end they all agreed that a NO vote was better for the Cyprus they live in.

[zan]

okay, I support him in his attempts to get a NO vote because he felt his community and country would not benefit. You have a point about not asking for more time to negotiate a better deal, within the AP. The rest I cannot comment because I don't know if the people feel blamed for it. I have spoken to relatives who voted yes and those who voted NO at the end they all agreed that a NO vote was better for the Cyprus they live in.

That is the point I am making Humanist but you keep missing it every time He either had time to make the decision or he didn't...He is claiming that he did not have the time but then says to you guys that the plan is bad and to vote OXI.....You, and he, cannot have it both ways and in that iit shows that the guy is a lier

[humanist]

Well then what I am saying he should have gone for more time. I agree with you Zan.

[zan]

Well then what I am saying he should have gone for more time. I agree with you Zan.

Sooooooo! In a round about way you agree he is a lier???

[humanist]

May be he is may be he isn't I don't want to call that shot. I do agree with you that he should have asked more time to study the plan better and make appropriate changes as he saw fit to benefit all Cypriots. Secondly I wish to say he has not done enough for a solution. He sat silent for most of the time and diod not invest time to ensure we move forward on this issue. I am not sure that Talatmorons lack of innititative drove Papadopoulos to a lack of drive or whetehr infact he just lost interest o whatever.

[Bananiot]

So naive. Do you think Papadopoulos fell into deep depression because Talat was not cooperating? Papadopoulos fought hard to get a "no" vote because he hated the philosophy of the plan, that is, BBF. He has rejected seven plans in his long career, all of which were miles better than the last one. Did you expect him to accept a plan that provided for the two communities to share the country as equal partners? The question everyone should be asking is "what does Papadopoulos really want"?

Back in 2003 he tricked AKEL to put him in the top position by declaring openly that if he was elected President he would work on solving the Cyprus issue on the basis of the Annan Plan No. 3 which he accepted and he would negotiate it to better it. He did everything possible to make it worse so that he could ask for a loud "no". This proves that the man is against any compromise solution.

Papadopoulos has always been a proponent of "clean" solutions. He would rather have half a Cyprus that would be totally Greek than a whole Cyprus with the Turkish Cypriots achieving equal political status as a community. Because he does not have the clout, political and military, to achieve his goals, he is heading for disaster and this is why he will lose the elections in February, because the people have begun to understand him better and are not willing to go down the drain with him.