Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

I find the article by Erdal Safake extremely interesting. This thread however, will be spoilt by childish people making stupid remarks, like so many.

Just a word regarding the opinion polls. All the recent polls are very worrying for Papadopoulos (Matsakis called him Papadopellos on a recent radio chat. Slip of the tongue?). He started with a huge lead back in May and now he hardly polls 31% with a downward tendency as the other big two are slowly but steadily gathering momentum. His presence in the second round is now seriously questioned.

[humanist]

I heard Cyprus is having triplets

[Bananiot]

See what I mean?

[Nikitas]

A solution under EU principels can NEVER DIVEST property rights. And that is the major problem in any solution proposed so far in Cyprus, how to deal with the property issue.

Kosovo as a precedent is a double edged sword. The TCs immediately assume that they are the equivalent of the Albanians, forgetting that the Albanians are the MAJORITY in Kosovo and they are forced to accept the minority rights of the Serbs and others. It is also a great mistake to think that you can bargain non compliance with EU rules, ie Turkey settles Cyprus and the way to Europe opens up automatically. It does not happen that way.

An EU solution will involve accepting and implementing EU Acquis in the local laws of both entities and the Acquis does not allow property theft. Property is either returned or compensated. Furthermore the Acquis imposes freedom of movement for people, freedom of establishment and trade. Talat has already said that such a move will undermine "Bizonality" ie partition, and he does not want it. He is seeking a political deal that will circumvent these provisions and this will not stand in the EU. You cannot allow Germans and Britons to own houses in Kyrenia but exclude Greek Cypriots.

What is more likely is that Turkey is finally waking up to the fact that she is unnecessarily bogged down in Cyprus and wants an honorable way out. A one step move from the 19th to the 21st century. We'll see how things develop in the spring, but dont expect too much.

In short the writer of the article does not know the underlying facts.

[Kifeas]

Under the title: What is going on there? Turkish daily SABAH newspaper (28.11.07) publishes the following column by Erdal Safak:

We know that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will not confirm it but according to the impression we get from the developments, a new road map is being prepared for Cyprus in Ankara.

Firstly let us convey two fresh statements from the TRNC.
The first one is from the President Mehmet Ali Talat: Our policy is a partnership state fixed on the UN parameters, based on two equal founding states under the roof of federation, he stated.

The other one is from the deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs Turgay Avci: We will continue to work on until the Turkish Cypriots achieve days full of independence, freedom and prosperity.

Is it not strange that the President is saying a partnership state under the federal roof and the Minister of Foreign Affairs talks about independence?
It is strange but it is not contradictory. One is drawing up the framework of the initiative which is going to start next year; the other is showing the horizon after this initiative.

Again, according to our impression, two developments are expected for the issue of the application of the new road map.

The determining of the final status of Kosovo in the next month.
The outcome of the presidential elections in South Cyprus in February.
The solution in Kosovo as regards freezing of the diversities will be an inspiration; in fact it will be a precedent. As regards the outcome of the elections in South Cyprus they will make clear if the Greek Cypriots carry or not the unification desire.

Subtitle: Get the news from the Russians

The most important hint related to the new road map of Ankara, gave Leonid Abrambov (TR. Note: As written in the text) Russia’s Cyprus special envoy who made a series of talks recently in Ankara, Athens and Lefkosa. Turkey does not even want to hear the word 8th of July anymore, he said.

Abrambov, with the expression 8th of July means the document that Papadopoulos and Talat signed on the 8th of July 2006 with the efforts of Ibrahim Gambari, UN Secretary-Generals assistant (Now he is struggling with the Myanmar crisis). The two leaders had pledged this agreement from one side to solve the problems occurred in everyday life, and from the other side to establish committees for preparation for talks for the two sides which will lead to a comprehensive and permanent solution.
From that date on, no progress was achieved but Papadopoulos, started to put forward that the 8th of July document is a new beginning, meaning that the negotiations must start from zero.

As regards Turkey, she is supporting the contrary and is defending, as international law stipulates, that the negotiations must start from the point they were left. Where the point is the negotiations were left? Certainly the plan which was prepared by the former UN Secretary-General Koffi Annan and which at the referendums was accepted by the Turkish Cypriot side and was rejected by the Greek Cypriot side. The meaning: Either this plan will be put forward with minor changes and become the key for the solution, or else

The last date: The end of 2008

Here it is, Turkey in order to name or else, at the end of February 2008 will call the UN for a new initiative. But under one condition: Solution on the basis of the Annan Plan to be found the latest by the end of the year.
While the public opinion polls in South Cyprus show that Papadopoulos will win the elections with big difference, and while Papadopoulos stated that he will never accept the Annan Plan to be put on the negotiation table, either the UN will not dare to take a new initiative or with full knowledge of the disadvantageous consequences we can say that in a few months concrete diplomatic efforts will be tried.

Here it is, after this process, Turkey will take out the joker. Since a UN model union cannot be done, an EU model union should be tried. The meaning: First to part and after to be united within the EU structure. Like the Checks and the Slovaks. Like the Serbs and the Montenegrins, even like Kosovars. Was it not in this way that the EU membership was promised to the Serbs who were against Kosovos independence?
If we must put a name to the joker, the meaning of the two states solution comes.

The TRNC Minister of Foreign Affairs Turgay Avci meant this with the statements we have just mentioned above.

As a matter of fact, pressure on Turkey as regards Cyprus is almost stopped from the USA and the EU and it seems that they have prepared the international community for this probability or at the least such a solution will not surprise it a lot.

Cyprus is pregnant to very much surprise next year.

Usual Turkish wishful thinking garbage, applauded as expected by the Bananas in the Greek Cypriot side!

What is interesting re Banana, from all the above rubbish that you read?

Aei gamisou!

[humanist]

Zany Zany Zan Zan, he didn't screw you on the AP. The AP as was agreed by the two communities was to go to referendum. One side voted yes to it the other voted no. It should be left there.

What I overwelmingly agree with you is that he is not serious about reaching a solution and I will substantiate my coment by saying that since the referendum Mr Papadopoulos has sat idle and has done very little in this matter. Mr Papadopoulos should have presented at the UN headquarters on weekly basis presenting plans and other possible solution to the UN representative. The fact thta he has not done so I beleive he is not ready to see a unified Cyprus. He should have done this despite the fact that Talat is also not prepared or unable to think, speak and act of his own accord without the big fat mama Turkey dictating as a dictator does.

[humanist]

Bananiot, sometimes you gotta laugh....... if the writer wanted to be taken seriously then perhaps they could have used a better title. I am very proud to say that I am a child at heart and if moking a stupid article with a stupid tittle makes me a child ...... GET OVER IT.

[Viewpoint]

A solution under EU principels can NEVER DIVEST property rights. And that is the major problem in any solution proposed so far in Cyprus, how to deal with the property issue.

Kosovo as a precedent is a double edged sword. The TCs immediately assume that they are the equivalent of the Albanians, forgetting that the Albanians are the MAJORITY in Kosovo and they are forced to accept the minority rights of the Serbs and others. It is also a great mistake to think that you can bargain non compliance with EU rules, ie Turkey settles Cyprus and the way to Europe opens up automatically. It does not happen that way.

An EU solution will involve accepting and implementing EU Acquis in the local laws of both entities and the Acquis does not allow property theft. Property is either returned or compensated. Furthermore the Acquis imposes freedom of movement for people, freedom of establishment and trade. Talat has already said that such a move will undermine "Bizonality" ie partition, and he does not want it. He is seeking a political deal that will circumvent these provisions and this will not stand in the EU. You cannot allow Germans and Britons to own houses in Kyrenia but exclude Greek Cypriots.

What is more likely is that Turkey is finally waking up to the fact that she is unnecessarily bogged down in Cyprus and wants an honorable way out. A one step move from the 19th to the 21st century. We'll see how things develop in the spring, but dont expect too much.

In short the writer of the article does not know the underlying facts.

Compensation is the only way forward and there are precedents seen in for example Poland where a property was owned and lost by Jews, Germans and Poles.... the resolution there was that the current owner has paid compensation to the previous owners, pretty much the same principles in the AP. So any new attempt at resolving this problem will imo be based on the AP as I cannot see the UN scraping the AP and starting from scratch just for GCs.

Turkey was recommended for their positive steps on Cyprus, so it appears they are ahead of GCs who resounding rejected a UN brokered plan and didnt attept to resolve anything over the past 3 years.

[Bananiot]

Not only was Turkey commented and asked to carry on the good work (by the EU) but the script was signed by all the leaders, including Papadopoulos, who told another one of his lies two weeks ago. He said the commentation was signed by the Council of Ministers and not the Presidents.

P.S. Perhaps Kifeas can repeat his insults in english, what is he afraid of? I will not insult him back because I do not want to do him a favour.

[Nikitas]

In Poland property was lost by people who were nationals of another state to begin with. It was not lost by people who were, are and will remain nationals of the same state.

There is a paradox in any proposition on the property issue and no one wants to face it- and the paradox is simple: if Cyprus remains in the EU, as a unitary, federal or confederal state you cannot under EU rules divest anyone of their property. Secondly ALL EU citizens can own property in ANY country of the EU. You cannot discriminate against any one nationality of the 27 that make up the EU. So you cannot exclude Greek Cypriot ownership in the north, or Turkish Cypriot ownership in the south. The RoC is not at the moment discriminating against TCs while the north is discriminating against GCs.

Solve the paradox and you solve 9/10s of the problem. Now let us hear some new ideas on this, cause the old ones are obviously not going to cut it.