Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

THis view that the responsibility for the tragedy in Cyprus belongs to the Junta and not to Greece is the BIGGEST COPOUT in history. Proof is simple, had the Junta succeded would you, Epsilon, go back and cancel out the results?

Has Greece gone back on all the beneficial international agreement concluded by the Junta in other areas of foreign relations? Of crouse not.

The whole Cyprus deal was a risk-free adventure for Greece. It was territory that was out there to be gained by risking itself, not any other part of Greece. If Cyrptios could be fooled into fighting for Enosis it would give Greece a major asset, turning it as Bulent Ecevit said, into a Middle Eastern power. You can imagine the elevated cache in international politics if Greece could offer bases not only in the Balkans but in the eastern Med. America would be on its knees for such facilities.

The reason Greece fucked up is that it was stuck in the past, the times of the Greek civil war and the assholes it sent to Cyprus could not stomach the fact that the Cypriot communist party was legal. So they started a whole campaign against an imaginary enemy- the communists and split Greek Cypriot society in two. They lost before they even started!

These same assholes could not understand that "Cypriot" included Turkish Cypriot. In their minds the Turkish Cypriots were seen as something akin to the Turks of 1821 in Greece and treated accordingly. Another major fuck up!

And now, having lost this essentially risk-free adventure, but suffering no other substantial loss, not even a loss of face, Greece is content to lay the blame on the Junta, and fall back on the "Cyprus decides Greece supports" doctrine. In short it has washed its hands of the whole deal.

The most alarming aspect of this withdrawal from the Cyprus scene is the abandoning of any desire to project power beyond Greek territory. One such area is the sea and air space between Greece and Cyprus, between Rhodos and Paphos. This is the current big mistake by Greece and hopefully it will not regret it.

[alexISS]

THis view that the responsibility for the tragedy in Cyprus belongs to the Junta and not to Greece is the BIGGEST COPOUT in history. Proof is simple, had the Junta succeded would you, Epsilon, go back and cancel out the results?

So the responsibility belongs to Greece because Epsilon would not cancel out the result had the junta succeeded?

If the junta had succeeded in annexing Cyprus to Greece and sending the TCs away, you can be sure that the next democratically elected government would undo it.

You should also ask yourself; would there be a coup if it was an elected government instead of the junta that was in charge? Before the junta, Greece was in favor of an independent Republic of Cyprus, against the wishes of the pro-enosis Cypriot leader, Makarios.

[boomerang]

THis view that the responsibility for the tragedy in Cyprus belongs to the Junta and not to Greece is the BIGGEST COPOUT in history. Proof is simple, had the Junta succeded would you, Epsilon, go back and cancel out the results?

So the responsibility belongs to Greece because Epsilon would not cancel out the result had the junta succeeded?

If the junta had succeeded in annexing Cyprus to Greece and sending the TCs away, you can be sure that the next democratically elected government would undo it.

You should also ask yourself; would there be a coup if it was an elected government instead of the junta that was in charge? Before the junta, Greece was in favor of an independent Republic of Cyprus, against the wishes of the pro-enosis Cypriot leader, Makarios.

1...What makes you believe if the JUnta succeded in annexing Cyprus it wouldn't lasted for a long time?...what about if they carried out the next 10-15 years...Were we suppose to suffer until you had a change of government in Greece?...

2...Silly question you might want to refrase this one...Its beside the point it initiate in Greece...You exported your problem to us...who supported what is irrelevant...

Nikitas is spot on...as usual...I take my hat off you re koumbare


PS...epsilon couldnt lift his own jock strap not alone carry a debate...you do well to think about this one next time you use his names for inspiration...

[alexISS]

Boomerang, can you be more specific? Whose fault was the coup if not the junta's? Mine? My family's? The Greek junta was an instrument of the Americans, a fact for which Bill Clinton himself apologized when he visited Greece a few years ago.

Were we suppose to suffer until you had a change of government in Greece?...

Would YOU actually suffer if the junta had successfully annexed Cyprus to Greece? Don't forget, EOKA B was quite popular in Cyprus at the time. So, to rephrase, had the Junta succeeded, it would be YOU who would not want to undo it, not the next democratic Greek government.

2...Silly question you might want to refrase this one...Its beside the point it initiate in Greece...You exported your problem to us...who supported what is irrelevant...

I think it's you who needs to rephrase, what are you saying?!?

[Nikitas]

Greece is in a period where it is deciding its future role and it cannot break out of the small minded "bakalistiko" thinking of some ot its politicians and others. To give an example-

In the selection process of its new main jet fighter the choice was between the F-15 and the F-16. One air force officer said, in public, that his mission was to protect the Aegean, hence he preferred the F-16, and added "if my mission was further afield, like in the Black Sea, then I would take the F-15".

How about protecting Cyprus asshole! Ah I forgot, that problem was not of your making, it was the Junta. Excuse me Sir. So there is a self imposed limitation of military capability to exclude Cyprus.

[boomerang]

As soon as I got to this I stopped reading the rest...

EOKA B was quite popular in Cyprus at the time

This is the biggest and an absurd comment ever made in this forum...even from extremists...

Just to inform you...hardcore EOKA B supporters were few in numbers, and with a few more brainless ideologists, that could swung either way with the right encouragement...They ruled by intimitation...no difference to an every day terrorist group...ruled with the iron thumb...similar tactics with the TMC...they went to the same school...

[alexISS]

Greece is in a period where it is deciding its future role and it cannot break out of the small minded "bakalistiko" thinking of some ot its politicians and others. To give an example-

In the selection process of its new main jet fighter the choice was between the F-15 and the F-16. One air force officer said, in public, that his mission was to protect the Aegean, hence he preferred the F-16, and added "if my mission was further afield, like in the Black Sea, then I would take the F-15".

How about protecting Cyprus asshole! Ah I forgot, that problem was not of your making, it was the Junta. Excuse me Sir. So there is a self imposed limitation of military capability to exclude Cyprus.

What was that?!? There's no need for f-15 to protect Cyprus because Greek jets are stationed IN Cyprus, there's no need to cover long distances from Greece. How many fighters does Cyprus own? None. The Cypriot air force is in fact Greek

[alexISS]

As soon as I got to this I stopped reading the rest...

EOKA B was quite popular in Cyprus at the time

This is the biggest and an absurd comment ever made in this forum...even from extremists...

Just to inform you...hardcore EOKA B supporters were few in numbers, and with a few more brainless ideologists, that could swung either way with the right encouragement...They ruled by intimitation...no difference to an every day terrorist group...ruled with the iron thumb...similar tactics with the TMC...they went to the same school...

So what if you added up "hardcore" and "mild" EOKA B supporters? You are lying to yourself, EOKA B WAS popular, and even people who now condemn its actions were at that time supporting it

On the one hand you put the blame for the coup on the Greek people(!), on the other you deny your share of the blame, well done

[Nikitas]

THe Cypriot air force is in fact Greek. Precisely, so we expect some show of force when Turkish jets overfly the free areas. We are not getting it. Jets are not permanently stationed in Cyprus, they come over now and again.

F-15s would provide a permanent capability to protect Cyprus and beyond at all times. F 16s do not have the range, at least that is what air force officers themselves say.

In addition, there has not been a commercial ferry service between Greece and Cyprus for years, which means diminished Greek presence in the sea between Rhodos and Limassol. This link should have been active if not daily then at least twice weekly even if it meant paying taxpayer money to keep it up. EU citizens wanting ot travel to Cyprus by sea must resort to going to Turkey and taking the ferry from Mersin. The political and strategic repercussions are self evident, especially if you consider that Greece is the major merchant sea power in Europe and on of the top three in the world. This is what I mean by "bakalistiko" approach.

[Nikitas]

If EOKA B was popular then why did its candidate in the elections get only 3 per cent of the vote and Makarios, accused of being anti Enosis get 97 per cent in the early 70s?

The EOKA B candidate, the psychiatrist Evdokas subsequently wrote articles in the Greek press condemning EOKA B, but too late.