Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

Thank you humanist for seeing reality, pity others did not visit the TRNC and see for themselves that their perception of TCs is totally wrong.

[Nikitas]

Tim said:

"The only basis for the claim on the part of the present RoC government to be the legitimate government of the whole island is the 1960 constitution. Remove that basis and you are on very shaky ground! "

There is a great deal of leeway allowed for emergency measures during extraordinary times. Having one third of the territory occupied for 33 years sort of seems to come under this heading. And there is a lot of precedents here, not least of which are the emergency measures taken by Britain during WWII and during the "troubles" in Ulster where they even had preventive detention without trial (we know how what the feels like, they did the same in Cyprus during 1955-60). And those measure wer found justificable even though there was no foreign occupation!!!

Mr Akinci claimed entry in the elections under the 1960 constitution while he also has a seat in the TRNC parliament. Sounds like instititutionalised treason here. And where does the 1960 constitution provide for a bizonal deal? How does participation in 1960 elections by people who want to partition the Republic give them a chance of winning their case in the ECHR?

If there is a genuine desire to claim rights under the 1960 constitution it is then reasonable to expect those who claim those rights to reject partition, to condemn the invasion and occupation and do so publicly. Unless that happens what we will have is a joint 1960 government in the south and full Turkish occupation in the north. Sounds like a recipe leading directly to an armed clash for me, since such a situation really puts the Greek Cypriot community in immediate peril. Unless someone cares to explain it in some other light.

[LENA]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

Thank you humanist for seeing reality, pity others did not visit the TRNC and see for themselves that their perception of TCs is totally wrong.

So VP, you agree that the RoC doesnt isolate you as you said to me... I told you in the past ...you dance with the words according the the rhythm that suits you. If it suits you ... you are isolated and when doesnt suits you...you are a well improved with buildings etc. If its suits you, the RoC did not gave you equal rights and if not you do not need them or is too late.

That was an excellent post Humanist. I am sure they will not stay back with all this money from Turkish, Americans and British!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

Thank you humanist for seeing reality, pity others did not visit the TRNC and see for themselves that their perception of TCs is totally wrong.

So VP, you agree that the RoC doesnt isolate you as you said to me... I told you in the past ...you dance with the words according the the rhythm that suits you. If it suits you ... you are isolated and when doesnt suits you...you are a well improved with buildings etc. If its suits you, the RoC did not gave you equal rights and if not you do not need them or is too late.

That was an excellent post Humanist. I am sure they will not stay back with all this money from Turkish, Americans and British!

Lena you may view it how you want Tcs have advanced despite the GCs and their national cause to keep us isolated so that we will want a solution GC style.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

Thank you humanist for seeing reality, pity others did not visit the TRNC and see for themselves that their perception of TCs is totally wrong.

Let me get this straight. If the "TRNC" did not get money from Turkey, the British and the Americans, it's GDP will not be above Turkey's, which is around $5,000 Dollars per year. Throw in the mix the sale of GC land and TC's bringing money by those living mostly in the UK, and you have some kind of economy, but will not be able to stand on it's own, if you removed those factors. But hey, if you think the "TRNC" is doing just fine, then lets not hear how the North is kept in isolation and that the infrastructure is falling apart.

[Tim Drayton]

Nikitas,
There is a very paradoxical situation. On the one hand the RoC government derives its international legitimacy from the foundation agreements and the 1960 constitution. On the other hand, this constitution proved unworkable in practice. Some of its provisions are arguably also anachronistic in the multicultural Europe in which we now live. Then you have an invasion. To what extent are emergency measures or unilateral amendments justified? I am no expert in constitutional law, so I don't know.
However, I can't help feeling that it is very dangerous to make unilateral amendements to the basic principles of the constitution. One such core principle is bicommunality. Yes, Turkish Cypriots are voting for the president for the first time. The reason they are doing so for the first time is that, under the constitution, they are supposed to be electing the Turkish Cypriot Vice President. Where does this actually place Turkish Cypriots? If a small number of Turkish Cypriots residing in the south vote alongside Greek Cypriots in what are technically Greek Cypriot constituencies, then does ths not de facto turn them into a minority?
There is a saying about giving somebody enough rope to hang themselves. In 2006 a small number of Turkish Cypriots voted for candidates to fill Greek Cypriot places in the House of Representatives, and there was even one Turkish Cypriot candidate. This year they voted in elections to Greek Cypriot municipalities. Next year they will vote for the Greek Cypriot president.
I can't help wondering if the outside world will suddenly turn round and says, "Hold on. Why should we not recognise the TRNC? You have now turned the Turkish Cypriots living in the south into a minority. This flies in the face of the principle of bi-communality. Why, then, should the Turkish Cypriots not have their own government to represent them where they are in the majority?"
Perhaps I am wrong, but this thought has been at the back of my mind for some time.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu, if there is isolation it is not viible. There are many well to do people living in the occupied areas of Cyprus. I was very impressed by th architecture and quality of life as it appears to a visitor. Especially Kyrenia and the surounds. The univeristies are awsome buildings and take up vast areas of land ( no doubt refugee land) , but if Turkish speaking Cypriots can do it its okay. The development and shops are as modern as they are in the RoC and I have to say more fashionable or I just happened to find them there than in the RoC.

As far as cars are concerned am with VP they do the job A to B, once again the day I spent in Kyrenia there were just as many new cars in the occupied areas as there were in the RoC itself. People are doing okay.

The British and the Americans who currently support the trnc financially will make sure it keeps reasonably on par with the RoC because they don't want to see a unified Cyprus.

Thank you humanist for seeing reality, pity others did not visit the TRNC and see for themselves that their perception of TCs is totally wrong.

Let me get this straight. If the "TRNC" did not get money from Turkey, the British and the Americans, it's GDP will not be above Turkey's, which is around $5,000 Dollars per year. Throw in the mix the sale of GC land and TC's bringing money by those living mostly in the UK, and you have some kind of economy, but will not be able to stand on it's own, if you removed those factors. But hey, if you think the "TRNC" is doing just fine, then lets not hear how the North is kept in isolation and that the infrastructure is falling apart.

You can believe what you want but those factors are in place and functioning fine, it was even declared that the TRNC is 59th in the world rankings with regards to the best economies, I know you hate to hear such facts but it will stare you in the even though you choose to close your eyes. As for isolation we have discussed before its a state of mind and matter of economics but the bottom line is the standard of life is not bad, can it be better? of course it can but isn't that the case for the GC state as well?

[Get Real!]

You can believe what you want but those factors are in place and functioning fine, it was even declared that the TRNC is 59th in the world rankings with regards to the best economies,

Is that before or after Turkey's huge annual aid?

An entity that required aid to remain afloat throughout its existence is without a question unfeasible and cannot therefore be quantified in the way normal countries are to determine things like GDP, GNP, etc.

[boomerang]

It's called accounting the turkish way...just take a look at turkey, the second highest recepient of IMF to see what I am talking about...

It's called monkey see monkey do economy...