Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Why not add a few more...Like the Turks of Crete

Absolutely!! The ones that are the equivalent to the Armenians and others i the "RoC".....They chose to stay where they are

Your words not mine......They want to pin their flags to the illegal "RoC" then that is their problem.

thanks for reinforcing my point!!!!

Sorry Zan, but can you spell out your point for me and it's relation to my proposal. I find you too cryptic at times.[/quote


Your proposal has no point as we both know. My point is that if you are going to take your post seriously then we might as well take every other country into consideration. Stop trying to blur the edges on what is happening in Cyprus.

[Oracle]

Thanks for reinforcing my point!!!!

Zan ... you are pointless .. you throw away some remark and you hope by trial and error it has some relevance ..

The reality you are avoiding is perfectly simple ... you want a settlement to suit you, which you are not prepared to settle in a reciprocal fashion to anybody else ...

....... Now is that fair?

[zan]

Thanks for reinforcing my point!!!!

Zan ... you are pointless .. you throw away some remark and you hope by trial and error it has some relevance ..

The reality you are avoiding is perfectly simple ... you want a settlement to suit you, which you are not prepared to settle in a reciprocal fashion to anybody else ...

....... Now is that fair?

As opposed to....Having an agreement that suits you and your leaders ENOSIS aspirations of old........My island is not for sale to the highest murderer dear Stella.....MY CULTURE, MY LANGUAGE AND MY HOME IS IMPORTANT TO ME.


As for YOUR pointless rant about my point being pointless......It was relevant enough for you to add to it with other place names but not now.... I suppose you are going to claim ladies prerogative on this one are you!!!!

[GreekForumer]

Your proposal has no point as we both know.

With my proposal can you claim GCs are greedy, uncompromising, intransigent, power hungry ? NO WAY! On the other hand, my proposal is revealing much about the Turk/TC side. Read on.

My point is that if you are going to take your post seriously then we might as well take every other country into consideration.

How the hell does that follow ?

My proposal says "You can have any right you want, Zan. Whatever your heart desires! But to keep you from having any unfair, extravagant or excessive right, I have added a limiting factor". You could have argued that my choice of the limiting factor was inappropriate. Or you could have argued for an alternative limiting factor. It is duly noted that you, nor any other TC or Turk for that matter has failed to take this step.

My proposal is a variation of the form "You cut the cake in half and I'll choose which half to have".

Stop trying to blur the edges on what is happening in Cyprus.

I have removed the GCs from the picture. I have attempted to clarify the picture. No blurring at all. In fact the direct opposite! It is your side which has completely failed to address the central ideas in this proposal.

[zan]

Your proposal has no point as we both know.

With my proposal can you claim GCs are greedy, uncompromising, intransigent, power hungry ? NO WAY! On the other hand, my proposal is revealing much about the Turk/TC side. Read on.

My point is that if you are going to take your post seriously then we might as well take every other country into consideration.

How the hell does that follow ?

My proposal says "You can have any right you want, Zan. Whatever your heart desires! But to keep you from having any unfair, extravagant or excessive right, I have added a limiting factor". You could have argued that my choice of the limiting factor was inappropriate. Or you could have argued for an alternative limiting factor. It is duly noted that you, nor any other TC or Turk for that matter has failed to take this step.

My proposal is a variation of the form "You cut the cake in half and I'll choose which half to have".

Stop trying to blur the edges on what is happening in Cyprus.

I have removed the GCs from the picture. I have attempted to clarify the picture. No blurring at all. In fact the direct opposite! It is your side which has completely failed to address the central ideas in this proposal.

OK..LETS play!!!!!

Yes GCs are Greedy in that you want to lump the Turks and the TCs together and separate the Greeks and the GCs so as you look like the victim. It was a Greek Coup that brought the Turks and it was GC and Greek greed that wanted the island in its quest for ENOSIS. We have control of just 37%...You wanted and want 100% who is the greedier???


It follows in the same way yours follows.....You bring in the Kurds and I bring in the Turks and even the Macedonians.....Rule of thumb!!!


You have done nothing of the sort. The Greeks (You) have made the cake out of concrete and expect us to cut it with the plastic spoon that you again have supplied. In the end you walk away with the cake intact and we have bleeding fingers to show for our efforts......All made up by you and then you wash your hands of the whole thing and say its our choice...Nice try guv but I will make a real cake and only add the ingredients that are the GCs and TCs...If you want to add more, like the TUrks then I will insist you add the Greeks and so on......

[Oracle]

RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

"GCs will accept any TC community right if, and only if, the Kurds of Turkey can also claim the EXACT same right."

The beauty of this plan is twofold.

1. The GCs are COMPLETELY out of the loop. You cannot claim the GCs are being unfair because they are not negotiating these rights. TCs and mainland Turks can negotiate what these rights are.

2. Fairness. You cannot ask something of one community that your own community is not willing to accept. Surely ??

There are some flaws in your proposal GreekForumer.

The Kurds have been living in the region of Kurdistan for 1000s of years, long before the Turks arrived there. TCs arrived in Cyprus much more recently as invadors, and they where named as "TCs" (as opposed to just Turks or Muslims) within the last century. Furthermore the Kurds didn't steal the land of Kurdistan from the Turks. On the other hand the TCs stole the land that they now declared as "trnc" from us.

The Kurds are in the same category as the Basques, the Tibetans and a few other nations who are under occupation.

The TCs are a minority similar to the minority of Turks in Bulgaria, the Turks in Rhodes, the Whites in Africa and Latin America, and in general minorities that where created with the transfers of population from the colonial powers to their colonies.

Here is a map of colonialism. Almost the whole world was colonized and almost in every country of the world there is some bigger of smaller minority of former colonialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Colonisation2.gif

What Cyprus needs is one thing: To finally be liberated from foreign rulers. The TCs and any other minority can be equal Cypriot citizens with their fair share of power, but Turkey can not rule (via TCs) any part of our country or have any say in our internal affairs. The same goes for UK.

Regardless of the lack of historical similarities that have led to the presence of Turks in Cyprus and the presence of Turks in Kurdistan .... the common factor is that the Turks are the oppressors of both nations.

Hence it is the Turks that have to be addressed.

In proposing to them a consequence for their demands (credit and debit) ...... that is: if they demand an unwarranted right they must forfeit the same elsewhere, it exposes their unwillingness to be fair.

Therefore, proving your point Piratis that the Turks' modus operandi is "what is mine is mine, and what is yours, is mine also".

[Oracle]

Thanks for reinforcing my point!!!!

The only point it reinforces Zan is just how many times Turks have oppressed .... and in just how many scenarios this solution could be proposed.

[repulsewarrior]

...what an interesting topic. much reflection is needed. this is progress.

thank-you, GF.

zan your rebutal makes no sense to me, please try again. ps. yellow is very hard to read, and the use of colours in this case leave me to think that, you yourself are(is?) having a struggle with this debate.

[bill cobbett]

RW. I have taken the liberty of c & p the yellow bit, here in black.

It follows in the same way yours follows.....You bring in the Kurds and I bring in the Turks and even the Macedonians.....Rule of thumb!!!

Does this help?

[repulsewarrior]

...thanks, bill.

but does zan's argument make sense to you?

Furthermore, what are the "rights" that Turkish Cypriots are denied, that would be of no interest to Kurds?