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PARTITION-CAN WE ACCEPT IT

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby boulio » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:39 pm

a loose federation turkcyp is a confederation,at least thats who it came across in the annan plan.something more like switzerland or belgium i would prefer,not like serbia and montenegro or bosnia.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:54 pm

deleted by the author...
Last edited by turkcyp on Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby garbitsch » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:00 pm

Piratis your sarcasm is killing me!! :lol:

Ps: what you guys mean %18 rights be given to Turks in RoC? I didnt get your points. "Sorry I am too lazy to read the whole debate".
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Postby MicAtCyp » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:41 am

Turkcyp wrote: What you want is not a strong federation or weak. What you want is any federation based on geopgraphical states but not based on ethncity. This is completly against the whole idea of bizonal and bicommunal federation. What is the point if having a federation in Cyprus if we ar enot going to have bicommunality.


We don't need a Federation in Cyprus (which is a very expensive system for such a small place) because the sharing of the Political power based on ethnicity can be done in a Unitary State! It is true that if the system is going to be Federal it must divide both geographically and etnically and that is why I don't like it.First because it does not unite the people, second because the geographical division needs to take away a lot of GC properties and give them to settlers and TCs, and third because it has to restrict my own right to settle and live anywhere I like in my own country to save the pureness of bizonality!

The whole idea of a Federation plus bizonal plus bicommunal was actually accepted by Makarios 30 years ago when there could still be substantial moves of population back to their original places, and for the sake of a quick getting out of the 1974 invasion and occupation.

Coming now 30 years after to still accept the same thing, is like legalising the results of the invasion. For me it is unbeleivable that even Tpap advocates the same idiotic doctrine...
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Postby garbitsch » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:44 am

MicAtCyp wrote:
Turkcyp wrote: What you want is not a strong federation or weak. What you want is any federation based on geopgraphical states but not based on ethncity. This is completly against the whole idea of bizonal and bicommunal federation. What is the point if having a federation in Cyprus if we ar enot going to have bicommunality.


We don't need a Federation in Cyprus (which is a very expensive system for such a small place) because the sharing of the Political power based on ethnicity can be done in a Unitary State! It is true that if the system is going to be Federal it must divide both geographically and etnically and that is why I don't like it.First because it does not unite the people, second because the geographical division needs to take away a lot of GC properties and give them to settlers and TCs, and third because it has to restrict my own right to settle and live anywhere I like in my own country to save the pureness of bizonality!

The whole idea of a Federation plus bizonal plus bicommunal was actually accepted by Makarios 30 years ago when there could still be substantial moves of population back to their original places, and for the sake of a quick getting out of the 1974 invasion and occupation.

Coming now 30 years after to still accept the same thing, is like legalising the results of the invasion. For me it is unbeleivable that even Tpap advocates the same idiotic doctrine...


A unitary state didn't work and won't work either. If you reject any federal proposal, then unfortunatelly you will keep the island divided.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:47 pm

A unitary state didn't work and won't work either.


I car didn't start and therefore it can never start.....What a square logic!
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Postby metecyp » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:51 pm

Coming now 30 years after to still accept the same thing, is like legalising the results of the invasion. For me it is unbeleivable that even Tpap advocates the same idiotic doctrine

Because it's the only way forward! We have 2 seperate communities that want to govern themselves internally. The only way to bring them together is a bicommunal bizonal federation where they govern themselves internally and share the power at the federal level. As long as we have the titles TC and GC, we'll have a federation. The day that being a TC and a GC truly doesn't matter, then we can call ourselves Cypriots and move to something better like a unitary state. But we can't reach to that day before we go through some sort of federation.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:29 pm

Metecyp wrote: We have 2 seperate communities that want to govern themselves internally. The only way to bring them together is a bicommunal bizonal federation where they govern themselves internally and share the power at the federal level. As long as we have the titles TC and GC, we'll have a federation.


That would be fine, IF you were not holding our properties or better say 3 times as many properties as you left behind.How can we have such a system that will guarantee you be the majority in your CS without us having to abandon at least 2 thirds of our properties? We simply can’t. And I don't agree this is the only solution. How about getting the same central power and the same self governing power inside a unitary system that will guarantee you full autonomy in the areas you will be the majority? It is the same like BBF, without the need to have an "inflated area to make sense" for a Federal system and without depriving the GCs their rights to exchange whatever is exchangeable and still get back the rest of their properties, and without the danger of getting collapsed because on some total imaginary area the Gcs are too many, and without the need for physical borders and continuous checking on the amounts of GCs living in your CS.*

I think unless the people on both sides finally realise that this thing of a BBF (bizonal-bicommunal Federation) is un-achievable, we will never have a solution. No offense, but there will come the day that Turkey will enter the EU and their will be no other choice for the TCs other than lose everything.
I don't want to see that day, I don't want to see you having no choice other than surrender to whatever the GCs want. I want you to open your eyes and get a solution that is fair and acceptable both for you and for us before it's too late.

PS.* You realise of course that there WILL be borders and checkpoints, for a BBF and fixed majorities to be quaranteed don't you? For me this solution is not much different than 2 separate states.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:31 pm

With someone with your mentality absoulutely not, rather take my chances in hell. Apologies to other GC contributors (they know who they are) but there are a few members whos attitude and approach dominates and time and time again reinforces our worst fears, it is this holyer than thou outlook, that will be the reason why TCs will never agree to live together with GCs in a unitary system.
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Postby metecyp » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:13 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:PS.* You realise of course that there WILL be borders and checkpoints, for a BBF and fixed majorities to be quaranteed don't you? For me this solution is not much different than 2 separate states.

No, I don't realize. You can still maintain bizonality and majority of TCs in the north without strict border checking like now. GCs that want to live in the north have to register with the north state to be a resident and this will be the time to check if TCs are majority or not.
MicAtCyp wrote:I think unless the people on both sides finally realise that this thing of a BBF (bizonal-bicommunal Federation) is un-achievable, we will never have a solution

You're the only person in this forum that believes that BBF is not achievable. There's only one way solution, i.e. a BBF, that TCs will be willing to accept. Everyone, including T-Pap, is aware of this and talking about anything else is just waste of time.
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