Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Papadopoulos said (after the referendum) that the Annan Plan forms the basis for the solution and that we are looking for some minor changes to satisfy the Greek Cypriot community. He even called those that declared the Plan dead to be very naive and he declared at the top of his voice that such plans do not die and that they are always on the negotiation table.

Phoenix, my dear, Papadopoulos refused to go to negotiations to debate the changes he wanted. Now the Annan Plan is dead and the next plan, if ever there is another plan, will be two times worse than the Annan plan. Papadopoulos has left us staring at partition and our situation is dire.

[Get Real!]

Papadopoulos said (after the referendum) that the Annan Plan forms the basis for the solution and that we are looking for some minor changes to satisfy the Greek Cypriot community. He even called those that declared the Plan dead to be very naive and he declared at the top of his voice that such plans do not die and that they are always on the negotiation table.

Phoenix, my dear, Papadopoulos refused to go to negotiations to debate the changes he wanted. Now the Annan Plan is dead and the next plan, if ever there is another plan, will be two times worse than the Annan plan. Papadopoulos has left us staring at partition and our situation is dire.

Bananiot please answer these two questions:

1. Who committed Cyprus to the Annan Plan and even promised the US/UK that the people of Cyprus would accept it behind the people's backs?

2. How did these people who gave the BIG promissory note to the US/UK intend to go about getting the plan accepted under a democracy with so much confidence for the result?

Regards, GR.

[Bananiot]

Well, I remember huge boards littering the sides of many roads back in 2002 and early 2003 sporting a guy with a huge nose, proclaiming:

I pledge that I will solve the Cyprus issue using the Annan Plan!

Do you think that only the natives can read?

By the way, just seen on the news Papadopoulos speaking at Tseri. There was a man fast asleep while Papadopoulos spoke. Did you notice him?

[Get Real!]

Well, I remember huge boards littering the sides of many roads back in 2002 and early 2003 sporting a guy with a huge nose, proclaiming:

I pledge that I will solve the Cyprus issue using the Annan Plan!

Do you think that only the natives can read?

Was Cyprus committed to the AP in 2002/3? Is that why you brought up this period?

By the way, just seen on the news Papadopoulos speaking at Tseri. There was a man fast asleep while Papadopoulos spoke. Did you notice him?

It wasn't me that's for sure...

[LENA]

By the way, just seen on the news Papadopoulos speaking at Tseri. There was a man fast asleep while Papadopoulos spoke. Did you notice him?

[Bananiot]

Cyprus was committed to working for a solution while Ankara claimed that the problem was solved in 1974. Furthermore, Turkey threatened that if Cyprus becomes a member of EU the response of Ankara would be without bounds.

We had defined the solution we were after as BBF because this was the best we could achieve under the circumstances. When the crunch came and Turkey changed tune (and Denktash left the scene) we were left in limbo because deep down we did not want to share Cyprus with anyone else. Papadopoulos inherited Annan Plan no. 3 back in February 2003 after becoming president and promised that he would solve the issue on the basis of the Annan Plan. That was a lie, but he campaigned to become President using this lie and the people of AKEL who provided the bulk of the his votes were deceived. Thus, on becoming President he set his sights on discrediting the Annan Plan by allowing it to evolve into a plan that could be rejected by the people. He did nothing to better it and in fact he claimed that Turkey got everything she asked while we got zero. Were the international mediators so stupid as to satisfy only one part while giving nothing to the other part, when the plan would be the subject of approval by both communities? Of course not. It was all Papadopoulos doing who never accepted the philosophy of the proposed solution and finally he is now beginning to come out clean (mainly through his associates) who are calling for a new basis for negotiations to start.

Yet, the masquerade continues, when Papadopoulos clings by the July 8 agreement and boasts that this was his greatest achievement. The very first stipulation of this agreement calls for BBF with political equality of the parts. Papadopoulos will talk and talk, year after year, in order to sideline this agreement too. However, his game is now well known and this deceiver is knocking on a deaf man's door.

[DT.]

That was a lie, but he campaigned to become President using this lie and the people of AKEL who provided the bulk of the his votes were deceived. Thus, on becoming President he set his sights on discrediting the Annan Plan by allowing it to evolve into a plan that could be rejected by the people. He did nothing to better it and in fact he claimed that Turkey got everything she asked while we got zero. Were the international mediators so stupid as to satisfy only one part while giving nothing to the other part, when the plan would be the subject of approval by both communities? Of course not. It was all Papadopoulos doing who never accepted the philosophy of the proposed solution and finally he is now beginning to come out clean (mainly through his associates) who are calling for a new basis for negotiations to start.

Not a difficult task since the Akel supporters have been primed their whole life to be herded like sheep. "Poor" AKEL got greedy and stupid and its no good blaming Tpap for their own ambitions to power. The dishonest one here is Christofias who has done so man 180's in the last 4 years, he needs a Tom Tom GPS just to find his toilet.

Yet, the masquerade continues, when Papadopoulos clings by the July 8 agreement and boasts that this was his greatest achievement. The very first stipulation of this agreement calls for BBF with political equality of the parts. Papadopoulos will talk and talk, year after year, in order to sideline this agreement too. However, his game is now well known and this deceiver is knocking on a deaf man's door.

This is not accurate either Bananiot. The Gambari agreement does not stiplate politicial equality of the 2 communities anywhere. The whole point behind it is that it has no material substance to a solution but merely a plan to a plan. A roadmap if you like of how we can get from A to B without pointing out any turnings.

If something has been added recently then it is form the technical committees which I doubt would have done much by now due to Turkey's 180 on the agreement.

Tpap is not the best candidate by far to lead this country and I'm the first to admit this. The difference however is that we KNOW who Tpap is and what he is capable for and if your beliefs happe to coincide with his personal ambition then you're in a good place. If they don't as I assume yours don't then you need to take a leap of faith with chameleon flip flopper (borrowed from Dubya) Christofias or with Kassoulides who are unknown entities in peoples minds.

[Bananiot]

The first set of principles states:

1. Commitment to the unification of Cyprus based on a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation and political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council resolutions.

DT, what do you think "political equality" means here? I believe it is tantamount to political equality of the two communities. The Turkish Cypriots will take nothing short of political equality of the communities. I believe they are quite justified to ask for this and really I cannot see how we can go around this issue if we insist that political equality of the communities is out of question. Of course, this is an issue that could be debated for many years and Papadopoulos is a master in such tactis, just like Denktash. We have not a minute to lose!

[Nikitas]

Political equality of the two communities is a msytery to me, perhaps some of you here can explalin it.

What I see is that 18 per cent of the population retain 29 per cent of the land, more than half of the coastline (major resource in tourism), 30 per cent of government appointments, half of the federal appointments.

Equality in what terms? If we look at the bigest and most succesful federation in the world, the USA, we see that California (the most populous and richest state) is politically "equal" to New Mexico (population one million), but in practice California is a lot more "equal" than New Mexico.

So can anyone here explain to me this concept of equality in the framework of a federation? If we are so keen on a true and democratic federation why dont we adopt the US constitution and system and be done with it?

If you are all talking about equality at the citizen level, yes, that is understood and it cannot be any other way. So what do you, and especially Bananiot, mean by political equality?

[cymart]

Geo politics dictate that we cannot get a solution to our liking because of the unavoidable fact that Turkey is more strategically important than we are,so the only logical way out is a compromise which will give us at least some of the things we want.By burying our heads in the sand like some politicians are doing and pretending that things will somehow get better for us by refusing to compromise is cultivating the attitude among people that no solution is better than accepting one which is not according to our wishes!This suits Turkey as well because it shifts the blame onto our side and means they don't have to give up anything at all as part of a compromise....
I still maintain that Papadopoulos prefers this approach and only pretended to accept the third version of the Annan Plan because he was sure Denktash would save him by turning it down...
I also fully agree that any future plan will probably be worse than previous ones,especially when you bear in mind that if one side makes concessions to the other it will have to be mutual and reciprocated in some way.
The attitude of Papadopulos towards his opponents reminds me in a very nasty way of Putins-i.e. whoever is against them is 'in the pay of foreign agents and damaging to the national interest' etc etc!!!I experienced that country (Russia) first hand for six months quite recently and wish Papad. and his cronies would go over there and join him!This is Europe,not a neo-stalinist version of totalitarianism where anyone who has a different opinion had better keep their mouth shut!