Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

It seems one of those moments one wants to shout, "esek siksin!" Most of the TCs in this forum are such a load of numskulls that one wonders what purpose there is to be here! I just realized I have forgotten to include Halil in my list of dumbbells! "The dumb, the dumber and the dumbest!"

Zany dumby boy, did you read what I have been talking about? Did you understand it? No you didn't my dear, for you wouldn't have come with that whole bunch of unrelated crap! I ask you again, Zan, what does what you have come with as a reply, have to do with what I have asked before? Nothing, Zan, absolutely nothing! Such is your Kemalist hysteria and estrus that you run like a fool to defend Ataturk’s name, as if I was attacking and defaming him in the first place! No Zany boy, this is not what I was doing! Read again, you little fool! The same holds true for the rest of the pack, especially Halil!

Go ahead and shout. I hope somebody locks you up in the company of donkeys and your wish comes true.

To be honest, Deniz, I had you down for being slightly more intelligent and sincere than all the rest of the pack! It seems I have made a mistake!

To be honest I was thinking the same as you but lately your intolerance of opposing views and the language you just 'think' of using has changed my mind. I had been told by a few members that you are a 'good' guy, but your true colours are showing through. Its a pity really.

You will one day see all the sweet tongued GCs show their true colours Deniz. Kifeas just dropped his guard, the rest are a little more careful.

Don't forget though you chose these guys over foul mouthed TCs.

Nothing like experience MRfrom NG. He was always number two on my black list. He might have fooled one but not this one.

Happy New year to You

Deniz, a person’s integrity is determined not only by who his friends are and who he is likable to, but also by who his enemies are and by whom he is disliked! To this end, I am proud to be on your black list!

I am proud to be on any twisted insincere nationalist’s black list, no matter which side he comes from!

[phoenix]

Halil says :We are only demanding our proper share only. Nothing more and nothing less

And Kifeas says that your above claim only proves what a big hypocrite and a liar you are! No Halil, you are not simply demanding your “proper” share! You are demanding way more than that, all in the expense of the GCs! Of course there is always the possibility that with the word “proper,” you mean what you consider as “proper” for a Turk, always according to the parameters of your “father” who claimed that “one Turk equals the whole world! Otherwise you would have used the word “fair,” instead of proper!

İt is none of your business if i like Atatürk or not.

Of course it is none of my business if you worship and deify Atatürk! I already mentioned this earlier, in another post in this thread where I said that

In that respect, I do have every right to speak about kemalism, and to point out its shortcomings and the fact that it is completely and grossly unsuitable for Cyprus! I do however respect the TC’s right to honor and celebrate Kemal Ataturk as a national hero of themselves; to the extent they consider themselves as Turks, even in a cultural sense! What they have no right is to use state mechanisms to institutionally impose his ideology, in a multicultural Cyprus -a separate and different nation-state to that of Turkey!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 522#238522

What I criticize is not Ataturk on a personal level, and if your English weren’t as bad as it seems, you would have been able to grasp it! What I criticize is a.) the ideology deriving from his name, i.e. Kemalism, as it is practice until nowadays in Turkey, and b.) the “cult of personality” maintained around his name and façade! Both of these issues are not necessarily Ataturk’s initiatives, as such! He is dead anyway! They are instead practices institutionalized and maintained by the ruling Turkish elites and the military, nowadays!

No one forcing you like it or not .

Yes you do, and this proves once more what a hypocrite you are to claim that you want a solution in Cyprus! You voted “yes” to the Anan plan, and you even have the audacity to criticize the GCs for not doing so, in which you wanted to force upon the GCs that would have returned back into their ancestral places in the north, the acceptance, the liking and worshiping of Ataturk and kemalism!

This is what you have included in the Anan plan constitution of the so-called TC constituent state; so that you read and learn what a hypocrite you are to claim that you respect the GC’s right not to like him, whereas in reality you have tried to force him upon us!

Read my little hypocrite friend, how you have tried to enforce Ataturk and kemalism on us, the GCs that would have returned back to their country in the north out of which we were illegally expelled in 1974!

Right to Education and Training
Article 65
………..
(4) It shall be one of the primary duties of the State to provide for the educational and training needs of the people. The State shall carry out this duty in accordance with the principles and reforms of Atatürk, within a framework embellished with universal and national culture and human values, and in such a planned manner, as to meet the demands of the age and of technological progress as well as the demands and the needs of the individual and the community.
………..

You made a constitution for the state in which GCs would also be citizens and inhabitants of it, that would have made our children in school to gather every morning, raise the Turkish flag and shout slogans like “Ne Mutlu Türküm Diyene,” because this is what is required by your children to do, within the framework of Atatürk’s principles and kemalism! You wanted our schools to have the pictures and head status of Mustafa Kemal, inside and outside the classrooms, and to be taught the “principles” of Turkish nationalism, in accordance with the above closure of the “constitution,” just like you do now in the north and just like your “motherland brothers” do in Turkey, even to the Kurdish children! You wanted to treat us like you treat the Kurds and other minorities in Turkey, in an EU member Cyprus!

Furthermore, paragraph 9 from the above article says the following:

(9) The religious minorities, namely Maronites, Latin and Armenians, living in the boundaries of the State and whose mother tongue is not Turkish have the right to receive education at the primary and secondary level in their native language. This right is regulated by law. However, in such secondary schools, teaching of the Turkish language which is the official language of the State, is compulsory.

In other words, you even wanted to exclude us from the right to have education in our own native language, as this right was only reserved for the Maronites, Latin and Armenians, but not the Greek Cypriots! Just like your Kemalist “motherland brothers” do in Turkey, against the Kurdish citizens of Turkey!

Taking the Oath
Article 88
The deputies shall take the following oath before assuming their duties:
“I do swear upon my honour and dignity that I shall preserve the existence, rights and sovereignly exercised powers of the State within the United Cyprus Republic; that I shall be bound by the principle of the supremacy of law and by the principles of a democratic secular State, social justice and the principles of Atatürk; that I shall work for the welfare and happiness of my people; that I shall not depart from the ideal that every citizen must benefit from human rights and that I shall remain loyal to the Constitution.”

Every GC living in the north as citizen of the “TCCS,” that would have chosen to be elected as deputy in the local parliament of this part of his country, would have been forced to take an oath in Ataturk’s name, i.e. in the name of the founder of another foreign nation state, Turkey, and in the name of the father of Turkish nationalism! What a hypocrisy Halil, to claim that you wanted a reunited Cyprus and that you do not want to enforce Ataturk on the GCs, and yet you have voted for the adoption of the Anan plan and the above “constitution!” What an insincere and a hypocrite you and the rest of the TCs are! Hypocrites!

Furthermore, you claim that the Anan plan you have voted for, was not a partition plan, but a reunification plan, and that a certain percentage of GCs would have had the right to return back to their homelands in the north from which they were legally expelled in 1974. In reality, you wanted to discourage them to even attempt o do so, for they would have had no cultural rights and would have been treated as second class citizens, just like your Kemalist “motherland brothers” do in Turkey against the Kurdish citizens of Turkey! This is what you have included as article 1 of this “constitution!”

The Form and Characteristics of the Turkish Cypriot State
Article 1
The Turkish Cypriot State, as one of the two Constituent States of the United Cyprus Republic, which is based on the political equality, bi-zonality and equal status of the two Constituent States, representing the distinct identity of Turkish Cypriots and their equal political status in a bizonal partnership. It is a secular state based on the principles of human rights, democracy, representative republican government, social justice and the supremacy of law.

You wanted half of Cyprus to become -with our signatures, an area which will represent only the distinct cultural identity of the Turkish Cypriots; and “fuck” all the rest of Cypriots and their historical, heritage, cultural and even political rights in that part of their country; yet you claim that “you are only demanding your proper share only! Nothing more and nothing less!” What a hypocrite!

İf so called true Cypriots are like you . This Cyprus will see worse days in future too.

No halil, if I cannot be regarded as a true Cypriot, then there are no true Cypriots in this country, certainly neither you nor your friend Bananiot can be regard as such!

I am not religious, but I feel like lighting a candle and saying thanks that there are people of the younger Generation of Cypriots that are analysing matters in such a precise way as Kifeas.

I am so grateful that even a few GCs exist that rationally dissect what we are offered as a pseudo-solution, that I am sure Cyprus is in safe hands, for all the communities in Cyprus.

The Turks have to go back to the drawing board and employ a lot more cunning and subterfuge before they can try to trick the GCs into becoming modern day slaves to the Turks.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time . . . but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

[phoenix]

Halil says :We are only demanding our proper share only. Nothing more and nothing less

And Kifeas says that your above claim only proves what a big hypocrite and a liar you are! No Halil, you are not simply demanding your “proper” share! You are demanding way more than that, all in the expense of the GCs! Of course there is always the possibility that with the word “proper,” you mean what you consider as “proper” for a Turk, always according to the parameters of your “father” who claimed that “one Turk equals the whole world! Otherwise you would have used the word “fair,” instead of proper!

İt is none of your business if i like Atatürk or not.

Of course it is none of my business if you worship and deify Atatürk! I already mentioned this earlier, in another post in this thread where I said that

In that respect, I do have every right to speak about kemalism, and to point out its shortcomings and the fact that it is completely and grossly unsuitable for Cyprus! I do however respect the TC’s right to honor and celebrate Kemal Ataturk as a national hero of themselves; to the extent they consider themselves as Turks, even in a cultural sense! What they have no right is to use state mechanisms to institutionally impose his ideology, in a multicultural Cyprus -a separate and different nation-state to that of Turkey!

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 522#238522

What I criticize is not Ataturk on a personal level, and if your English weren’t as bad as it seems, you would have been able to grasp it! What I criticize is a.) the ideology deriving from his name, i.e. Kemalism, as it is practice until nowadays in Turkey, and b.) the “cult of personality” maintained around his name and façade! Both of these issues are not necessarily Ataturk’s initiatives, as such! He is dead anyway! They are instead practices institutionalized and maintained by the ruling Turkish elites and the military, nowadays!

No one forcing you like it or not .

Yes you do, and this proves once more what a hypocrite you are to claim that you want a solution in Cyprus! You voted “yes” to the Anan plan, and you even have the audacity to criticize the GCs for not doing so, in which you wanted to force upon the GCs that would have returned back into their ancestral places in the north, the acceptance, the liking and worshiping of Ataturk and kemalism!

This is what you have included in the Anan plan constitution of the so-called TC constituent state; so that you read and learn what a hypocrite you are to claim that you respect the GC’s right not to like him, whereas in reality you have tried to force him upon us!

Read my little hypocrite friend, how you have tried to enforce Ataturk and kemalism on us, the GCs that would have returned back to their country in the north out of which we were illegally expelled in 1974!

Right to Education and Training
Article 65
………..
(4) It shall be one of the primary duties of the State to provide for the educational and training needs of the people. The State shall carry out this duty in accordance with the principles and reforms of Atatürk, within a framework embellished with universal and national culture and human values, and in such a planned manner, as to meet the demands of the age and of technological progress as well as the demands and the needs of the individual and the community.
………..

You made a constitution for the state in which GCs would also be citizens and inhabitants of it, that would have made our children in school to gather every morning, raise the Turkish flag and shout slogans like “Ne Mutlu Türküm Diyene,” because this is what is required by your children to do, within the framework of Atatürk’s principles and kemalism! You wanted our schools to have the pictures and head status of Mustafa Kemal, inside and outside the classrooms, and to be taught the “principles” of Turkish nationalism, in accordance with the above closure of the “constitution,” just like you do now in the north and just like your “motherland brothers” do in Turkey, even to the Kurdish children! You wanted to treat us like you treat the Kurds and other minorities in Turkey, in an EU member Cyprus!

Furthermore, paragraph 9 from the above article says the following:

(9) The religious minorities, namely Maronites, Latin and Armenians, living in the boundaries of the State and whose mother tongue is not Turkish have the right to receive education at the primary and secondary level in their native language. This right is regulated by law. However, in such secondary schools, teaching of the Turkish language which is the official language of the State, is compulsory.

In other words, you even wanted to exclude us from the right to have education in our own native language, as this right was only reserved for the Maronites, Latin and Armenians, but not the Greek Cypriots! Just like your Kemalist “motherland brothers” do in Turkey, against the Kurdish citizens of Turkey!

Taking the Oath
Article 88
The deputies shall take the following oath before assuming their duties:
“I do swear upon my honour and dignity that I shall preserve the existence, rights and sovereignly exercised powers of the State within the United Cyprus Republic; that I shall be bound by the principle of the supremacy of law and by the principles of a democratic secular State, social justice and the principles of Atatürk; that I shall work for the welfare and happiness of my people; that I shall not depart from the ideal that every citizen must benefit from human rights and that I shall remain loyal to the Constitution.”

Every GC living in the north as citizen of the “TCCS,” that would have chosen to be elected as deputy in the local parliament of this part of his country, would have been forced to take an oath in Ataturk’s name, i.e. in the name of the founder of another foreign nation state, Turkey, and in the name of the father of Turkish nationalism! What a hypocrisy Halil, to claim that you wanted a reunited Cyprus and that you do not want to enforce Ataturk on the GCs, and yet you have voted for the adoption of the Anan plan and the above “constitution!” What an insincere and a hypocrite you and the rest of the TCs are! Hypocrites!

Furthermore, you claim that the Anan plan you have voted for, was not a partition plan, but a reunification plan, and that a certain percentage of GCs would have had the right to return back to their homelands in the north from which they were legally expelled in 1974. In reality, you wanted to discourage them to even attempt o do so, for they would have had no cultural rights and would have been treated as second class citizens, just like your Kemalist “motherland brothers” do in Turkey against the Kurdish citizens of Turkey! This is what you have included as article 1 of this “constitution!”

The Form and Characteristics of the Turkish Cypriot State
Article 1
The Turkish Cypriot State, as one of the two Constituent States of the United Cyprus Republic, which is based on the political equality, bi-zonality and equal status of the two Constituent States, representing the distinct identity of Turkish Cypriots and their equal political status in a bizonal partnership. It is a secular state based on the principles of human rights, democracy, representative republican government, social justice and the supremacy of law.

You wanted half of Cyprus to become -with our signatures, an area which will represent only the distinct cultural identity of the Turkish Cypriots; and “fuck” all the rest of Cypriots and their historical, heritage, cultural and even political rights in that part of their country; yet you claim that “you are only demanding your proper share only! Nothing more and nothing less!” What a hypocrite!

İf so called true Cypriots are like you . This Cyprus will see worse days in future too.

No halil, if I cannot be regarded as a true Cypriot, then there are no true Cypriots in this country, certainly neither you nor your friend Bananiot can be regard as such!

I am not religious, but I feel like lighting a candle and saying thanks that there are people of the younger Generation of Cypriots that are analysing matters in such a precise way as Kifeas.

I am so grateful that even a few GCs exist that rationally dissect what we are offered as a pseudo-solution, that I am sure Cyprus is in safe hands, for all the communities in Cyprus.

The Turks have to go back to the drawing board and employ a lot more cunning and subterfuge before they can try to trick the GCs into becoming modern day slaves to the Turks.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time . . . but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

[boomerang]

this why they concentrate in fooling the fools

[irresistible]

Our point is.. that dictator Mustafa Kemal was Gay and Jew.. and you have been brainwashed. got it now?

No.... the point is I and my guess is most people don't give a ..... Only those with a prejudice or historical grudge do. Nothing will diminish his achievements to Turkish people, least of all post dated gossip. And I also know he liked a drink before someone starts another rubbish thread.

who cares what you guess.

nope there's no prejudice, but these are realities, that the kemalist regime have been hiding from the world.

you can run, but can't hide.

http://m-kemal.blogspot.com

[irresistible]

If nothing else, one thing really sticks in my mind, the fact that he gave women the vote in Turkey :

1. Before they asked for it
2. Before England did!!!!

Whether he was Jewish, gay, alchoholic is irrelevant when you look at his achievements.

garbage..

let us not deviate from the main point.

the fact is that he was JEWISH, even his followers admit that. but they don't publicly acknowledge it. Why??

yes, why did dictator Mustafa Kemal lie to the people. just as he concealed his homosexual inclinations, he did lie about his ethnic origin and beliefs too. That is he was a liar... a great liar indeed.

and why is the secular government still fooling, in particular, its own people.. they obviously have a secret agenda.

the close ties between Zionist israel and "Secular" Turkey is pretty peculiar, by the way. This absurdity can easily be deciphered once we get to know that the founders of the secular regime in turkey were Jewish. That simple it is..

http://m-kemal.blogspot.com

[irresistible]

If nothing else, one thing really sticks in my mind, the fact that he gave women the vote in Turkey :

1. Before they asked for it
2. Before England did!!!!

Whether he was Jewish, gay, alchoholic is irrelevant when you look at his achievements. I admire him, and although he never had his own children he adopted several daughters and gave them a good, modern education. In an interview one of those daughters said he was a WONDERFUL Father!!! And thats good enough for me.
Tess

Totaly agreed, otherwise why Venizelos would suggest him for Nobel Prize candidate just after the horrible years of 1919-1922 ??

good point..

and the kemalists would claim he fought against the west.

how can, then, the West appreciate his work so much if he really struggled against them.

the answer is; he didn't fight against the west, but he fought for the West.

http://m-kemal.blogspot.com

[mehmet]

My my,

Irresistable and Cliff have popped out of the box again. Get back!

[boomerang]

Hey mehmet I thought people from Lourijina were of christian origin...is that true?...not that it matters to this post...I just wanted to know if that was a rumour or not...

[mehmet]

nope there's no prejudice, but these are realities, that the kemalist regime have been hiding from the world.

you can run, but can't hide.

That's right, you keep living with your reality...... and when the truth is finally revealed to you it is you who will be amazed that so few care as much as you do.