Cyprus-Forum.com

by **Get Real!** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:31 pm

Bananiot, I wonder what makes you confident that Turkey will honor her signature(s) in any given complex political arrangement, in the form of a “plan” presented by foreigners such as the AP, and especially plans that have a prerequisite the dissolution of the republic and thus our constitution.

by **Bananiot** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:41 pm

Your question is irrelevent GR. For a start, we were begging the "foreigners" to help us out. We rely on the "foreigners" and we will keep heavily relying on the "foreigners" for as long as we remain minnows. Unless of course you have a way to turn the mini into a mercedes. Then, the plan was not an instrument for the dissolution of the Republic but it did provide for a quick step down of Papadopoulos from the presidency, and as his son said, we were not prepared to step down, having spent millions to get there. Then, if you think that Turkey will never honour her signature then we are as good as dead.

by **phoenix** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:50 pm

Bananiot wrote:I suppose this applies to everyone, to a certain extend, that participates in fora. That is fine, I can live with it.

Pheonix, you could have chosen a better quote from Voltaire, this particular one sucks, big time. Doubt is what keeps the world going and distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

He did not deny that . . . in fact by stating that doubt was not a pleasant condition, meant this uncomfortable state mobilised the inquisitive mind to move towards a solution.

The ultimate which is certainty, is absurd because it can never be attained for the doubting, hungry mind.

by **Get Real!** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:11 pm

Bananiot wrote:Your question is irrelevent GR. For a start, we were begging the "foreigners" to help us out. We rely on the "foreigners" and we will keep heavily relying on the "foreigners" for as long as we remain minnows. Unless of course you have a way to turn the mini into a mercedes.

Are you implying that our small size deprives us of the right to be concerned if Turkey would honor her signatures in a given plan?

Then, the plan was not an instrument for the dissolution of the Republic but it did provide for a quick step down of Papadopoulos from the presidency, and as his son said, we were not prepared to step down, having spent millions to get there. Then, if you think that Turkey will never honour her signature then we are as good as dead.

So you’re saying that the RoC would continue to exist but without the president and that we would then trust that Turkey will honor the steps agreed upon…

by **Daemon** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:47 pm

Maybe your first paragraph is correct"their great bully president have fraud them and turn everyone against him ".

Since it seems that you want to use your brains (and this alone makes you a Greek and not a brain-dead neo-Greek or neo-Cyrpriot) I will answer you because Apollo (the god of human intelligence) told me (in his own way through reason) what I have to answer to anyone that deserves an answer.

Yes this ridiculous brain-dead human trash son of Jehovah, thinks what his ego trip is above reason that is a common thing to all Jehovah human trash even if they believe him directly, either if they have put him in their souls with a believe through his demon extensions.

All this Jew slaves are deserve them self’s. They are the worst thing that ever happened to humanity.

But think the case from the other side.

I am considering the following to be a possibility and i based this on a certain incident.

When Annan procedure announced - after NY meeting - and bacause i was against this plan i was considering Giorgos Papantreou (minister that time) as a trator because i was concedering him responsible because Cypriots had to deal with this plan.

This is your problem, every person with brains in Greece have supported the plan, including Papandreou, Karamanlis (that because he didn’t want to loose votes he said that he will support the Cypriots bullshits and after put Dora to clean the shit), Dora, Stefanopoulos and everyone with brains supported the plan.

And you must also consider what PASOK actions (along with their relations with the Americans that they are the only that want solution and are able to act against Turkey like they did) have put as in Europe.

It was before the referendum in Cyprus and we had elections in Greece.

I do not care about the elections in Greece, the people there have what they deserve and I’m afraid what the same is suitable for the neo-barbarians Cypriots.

In a meeting with another minster of the Greek government before the elections i put to him the question how it happen the Greek government to promote such a plan.

Because this plan is what our diplomacy was looking after for the past 30 years and because BBF is the only implementable solution with out a war, where if the bullies think what they can go against reason and against the whole world they should consider first if they have the power to go to a war against Turkey.

Because it was a world wide activation to force Turkey in a reasonable BBF solution (that is the only solution exists) and because Cyprus was in the better negotiation position that will ever be and because TPap made everything possible to bury our last chance because of his introvert religion based racist believes (that seems like yours) that basically are the absolute humiliation of the human kind. And because he didn’t negotiate like all most all the people were with him admit (last of them Tsielepis).

He throws the last chance of Cyprus in the trash and takes with him in the trash bucket the whole Cyprus and the Cypriots.

I repeat this was before the referendum and PASOK was supporting possitive vote to the plan.

PASOK after all they did and they are still doing (they are the only party in Greece that actually have some positive reactions from Europe) they had the right to show us the right way to solve our problem and to confront our responsibility (if we had the balls) and if we were able to confront our responsibility for our history and for our feature.

It was clear that Annan plan was the ticket for Cyprus to be accepted in EU.

PASOK , New Democracy party and all Cypriots politicians were supporting the procedure for the Annan plan UNTIL CYPRUS BECAME A MEMBER OF EU.

It was not. PASOK, Klirides government and the Americans made everything to pass the reality were a solution was not requirement to enter Europe and this was the greatest weapon we ever had to force Turkey in a reasonable solution for a reunification of Cyprus.

This weapon was thrown in the trash bucket because of this human trash racist president that does not want a solution and because Cypriots are neo-barbarians that have a foreign relation with reason and their brains.

This weapon was not even used for the negotiations from the biggest fart (even before Makarios who had some reason in his religious head) leader Cyprus ever had. This weapon was finally in the Turkish trash bucket along with the whole Turkish Cyprus when this human trash voted the justification of the occupation when he sign what Turkey made their best to solve the problem where he still had a chance to use this weapon to negotiate a better plan.

This weapon does not longer exist. Cyprus is in the worst position that ever was and the division is out of our door and knocking and there isn’t a shit that we can do to bring back the negotiation power we had.

Going back to above meeting with this minster-repeat before the referendum - his reply to me was very strange , coming from a high politician of PASOK which was supporting the plan. He replied " AND WHO TOLD YOU THAT CYPRIOTS WILL VOTE YES?"

If he did realize what we had this piece of shit for president it was a reasonable thing to say.

What i am trying to put into discussion here is the possibility , for first time , the Greek government with Cyprus politicians, Clerides, Papadopoulos, why not Christofias,to play a game against the international community in order to achieve the membership in EU.

I have answer to that above, the solution were not a requirement for our accession because of Klirides, Krainidiotis (that his closer people support what he would say yes) Paggalos and the rest of PASOK and all of them said yes and because our side was incopapale to pass an alternative, something that Clirides could do if there was a need because of his credibility and because he was the most respectable leader that we ever had.

Chrisofias that have some brains and some mental capability he may believed that and maybe this is the reason that he supported all this hilarious freak show of TPap and yes TPap after his freak show he may belived what he could use Europe for a no federation solution. But his policy (if he ever had one) was totally came to a total and absolute defeat and humiliation when he rejected the plan the way he did and when he show to everyone with brains what his aim was to bury the last chance we had and not achieve a better BBF solution that he (or Christofias or Cleirides and everyone wanted) could achieve. He wanted to blackmail Europe (like they could do a shit after all he did) after he fraud them with this hilarious way. And of course he takes a big European Dick where in fact it was what he actually deserved.

I can see the logic and the possibility of a better solution after our accession but Papadopouls had destroyed everything and he is still destroying Cyprus with every possible way and the brain dead zombies are following him to their doom.

Of course the person who was liable, afterwords, to guide the Cypriots to vote no was the president who happened to be Papadopoulos.

This person must make hara-kiri because he had all the chances that god (Apollo fits) can provide even to idiots of this kind and he throw them to the trash bucket along with his country because of his mental sickness and his ego trip that start from the 60ies where he wanted to genocide the TC’s because of cultural and mental inability and sickness.

I remember very well that the support of yes by PASOK was not very strong after 1st of May and K Karamanlis who, meantime, became a prime minister said neither yes neither no.

Pasok can feel proud for their decision even if this is the first time of their history that they did something good for the foreign policy of Greece. And this is what history will write with black (and maybe red) letters, what some people had the balls to go against the feelings with the patriotic reason.

This small incedent is still keeping myself sceptical of considering that G.Papantreou played a negative game against Cypriots in cooperation with Americans and D.Mpakoggiani . I am not sure but i have the feeling that Papadopoulos became the person to be blamed by Europeans and Americans but someone else could be in his position. I believe that even Clerides was elected again he would guide the population to vote no.

Americans were (and maybe still are) our best friend for a solution because they wanted to throw out Turkey (and their allies Russia and Iran) from Cyprus and give that advantage to them self’s and to their true allies from Europe. And our defeat is also an America defeat, where we are in a situation that not even them have the power to force Turley (again) to a solution

Please also consider that because of the difficulty of the Cyprus problem,anybody who will be in the leadership of GCS and TCS on the time of an agreement (the leaders who will sign the agreement) will be considered 100 per cent trators by their communities.

Think that if Israel and Palestinians sign an agreement on their problem-be sure that their leaders will be killed after the agreement as trators but the agreement will remain.

Who gives a shit for what the out of space and time apes believe?

The issue here is to have a leader that have same basic understanding of democracy and international relations and not have some apes politicians that was calling the yes voters to suicide (Pittokopitis) or was calling them traitors (Papadopoulos) or they was sending them in the Jews hell (priests).

Apollo will strike back to this human trash that they are still trying to humiliate him after 2000 years of the failed attempt to kill him.

by **Daemon** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:09 am

Since I’m tempted by logic noetic experiments (philosophy) I will answer to my friend Voltaire:

The first and the only way to start you trip to the truth is to abolish anything absolute that there is a use to doubt about.

With out doubt for something that can’t be proved with science and it’s limited to human brains capability you can’t find reasonable arguments to support it and there is no place for the other opinion to doubt about where in fact had pass through all the doubts could and there is not a reason for whom who doubt about them that can't doubt, to doubt about what he can support with a million reasonable arguments because he doubts about them.

And there is a reason to doubt about them that can't doubt about something that can’t be proved.

In simple words in a ridiculous off balance situation where doubt is a strange word for the opinion that tries to pass believes with the will of power and in a place where the person that had all the doubts he could is persecuted there is no place for doubts for the other opinion that is unable to doubt and to find reasonable arguments and reason in generally because of that.

So in the end with out doubt for something that can’t be proved there is no reason but doubt about them that can not doubt is the best thing you can do for them and their supporters (and to your research for the truth) and to abolish their absolute undoubted truth by kicking their demonic emotion based inability (in every case) to approach reason.

This is a suitable answer to Voltaire.

---------

And there is absolutely no fucking reason to doubt about TPap where the will of power is used in the other opinion with ever way (in a theocracy dogmatic way). And there are millions reasons for his supporters to doubt about and they don’t.

Maybe I could balance things if I could find doubt in the other opinion where this doubt could lead me to doubt for their capability to doubt and think reasonable because of that.

While I can’t find doubt in the other opinion I have no doubts for their capability to approach reason and I know what I have to do with an emotion demon that can answer only to emotions and another demon blended with emotions and reason is the last thing that reason can do for you.

This is the answer to the rest.