Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

When you compare Kosovo to Cyprus you forget that the independence in Kosovo is going to be recognised for the majority community (the Albanians) and the minority, the Serbs, are not given any special status of equality etc as is being discussed in Cyprus. So the Kosovo precedent is not directly comparable to Cyprus, if it were we would then have a truly independent Cyprus and minority guarantees to the smaller communities of the island.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot,

When you compare Kosovo to Cyprus you forget that the independence in Kosovo is going to be recognised for the majority community (the Albanians) and the minority, the Serbs, are not given any special status of equality etc as is being discussed in Cyprus. So the Kosovo precedent is not directly comparable to Cyprus, if it were we would then have a truly independent Cyprus and minority guarantees to the smaller communities of the island.

As will be the case in a recognized TRNC (=Kosovo) with its own minorities.

[Nikitas]

Alternatively VP we might have a situation where the Turkish Cypriots have their minority rights recognised as will happen with the Serbs in Kosovo. Ever thought of that?

[Viewpoint]

Alternatively VP we might have a situation where the Turkish Cypriots have their minority rights recognised as will happen with the Serbs in Kosovo. Ever thought of that?

You are using the angle that suits your cause best, what we have seen over recent history is the breaking up of many states most recently being Serbia and Montenegro and now Kosovo, although you may not want see the similarities why is so difficult to accept that any forced and articficial union will break down over a very shirt period of time. We have a tried and tested formula where we have all exsisted side by side for more than 33 years, I acknowledge the refugees issue as the major problem we have to solve and like everyone else wish that these people could be compensated for their loss as soon as possible either by return of land (north or south) where possible or a financial package, GCs must realize that if they wish to return to the north they will live in a TC state called the TRNC and if TCs wish to return south they will live in a GC state called whatever you wish. Why force a partnership when you can have 2 states side by side living just they have done for the last 33 years, peacefully.

[Get Real!]

GCs must realize that if they wish to return to the north they will live in a TC state called the TRNC

Many fools with similar ideas have come and gone from Cyprus so what makes you think 130,000 vegetable growers will succeed where giants have failed?

[Nikitas]

Quote from VP"

"what we have seen over recent history is the breaking up of many states most recently being Serbia and Montenegro and now Kosovo"

You are leaving out one VERY IMPORTANT detail- there was no property theft and no colonisation in any of these cases!!!! Breaking up a state is OK, losing property is not, neither is forced expulsion of inhabitants and the importation of colonists. Move into the 21st century and look around.

Serbia and Montenegro were always separate countries, Kosovo is majority Albanian, the minority Serbs another will have guaranteed rights. Be careful you dont end up like the Serbs, EU afterall recognises their status in Kosovo as a fair deal, the best they can hope for.

[Kikapu]

Alternatively VP we might have a situation where the Turkish Cypriots have their minority rights recognised as will happen with the Serbs in Kosovo. Ever thought of that?

You are using the angle that suits your cause best, what we have seen over recent history is the breaking up of many states most recently being Serbia and Montenegro and now Kosovo, although you may not want see the similarities why is so difficult to accept that any forced and articficial union will break down over a very shirt period of time. We have a tried and tested formula where we have all exsisted side by side for more than 33 years, I acknowledge the refugees issue as the major problem we have to solve and like everyone else wish that these people could be compensated for their loss as soon as possible either by return of land (north or south) where possible or a financial package, GCs must realize that if they wish to return to the north they will live in a TC state called the TRNC and if TCs wish to return south they will live in a GC state called whatever you wish. Why force a partnership when you can have 2 states side by side living just they have done for the last 33 years, peacefully.

Sorry to correct you, but you have lived in SECURITY with the help of the Turkish Army and not PEACEFULLY with your neighbours for the last 33 years. If you think the 200,000 GC refugees and their community are at peace with you for them being thrown out of their homes and property so that TC's and the settlers can have a better life than themselves, you do not understand the difference between the two. You cannot take away someone else's land by force and just offer them money to keep them off it as well as taking away their historic rights to their country by you wanting to declare a TC state. It will never happen. Do not look at other examples where states have broken away, because they were their own people and land before being forced into a union in recent history, so now they have broken away. Show me how that has any resemblance to Cyprus and it's people. The best that could have been the same in Cyprus, if the Ottomans when first arrived in Cyprus took the Northern 40% of Cyprus and only had Turks living there and the GC's living in the other 60%, then you can make a claim that the TC's had a 400 year history in the North and now wishes to declare independence from the rest of the island. So please, do not confuse peace with security, because the two are very much different from each other. As Kifeas had told you many times as well as others, you may only have a state with majority TC's in a True Federation, but that does not give you ownership of that state. Perhaps in 500 years or so, if the "TC state" continues to be predominantly TC's, then you can try to declare independence at that time. As you have already witnessed, by declaring independence prematurely as it was done 24 years ago, has not given you what you wanted. There are reasons for that, only you will need to accept the facts for those reasons and not your wishful thinking and hoping.

[Viewpoint]

GCs must realize that if they wish to return to the north they will live in a TC state called the TRNC

Many fools with similar ideas have come and gone from Cyprus so what makes you think 130,000 vegetable growers will succeed where giants have failed?

WTF are you on about? If it is declared the the north will be administered by TCs can you honestly say that GC will return, they do not want to live as a minority any more than we do.

[Viewpoint]

Quote from VP"

"what we have seen over recent history is the breaking up of many states most recently being Serbia and Montenegro and now Kosovo"

You are leaving out one VERY IMPORTANT detail- there was no property theft and no colonisation in any of these cases!!!! Breaking up a state is OK, losing property is not, neither is forced expulsion of inhabitants and the importation of colonists. Move into the 21st century and look around.

Serbia and Montenegro were always separate countries, Kosovo is majority Albanian, the minority Serbs another will have guaranteed rights. Be careful you dont end up like the Serbs, EU afterall recognises their status in Kosovo as a fair deal, the best they can hope for.

You probably choose to omit what you do not want to hear to comprehend, GCs will be given the opportunity to return or recieve an economic package for loss of property but those that will return will have minority rights just like those you wish to enforce upon us.

[Viewpoint]

Alternatively VP we might have a situation where the Turkish Cypriots have their minority rights recognised as will happen with the Serbs in Kosovo. Ever thought of that?

You are using the angle that suits your cause best, what we have seen over recent history is the breaking up of many states most recently being Serbia and Montenegro and now Kosovo, although you may not want see the similarities why is so difficult to accept that any forced and articficial union will break down over a very shirt period of time. We have a tried and tested formula where we have all exsisted side by side for more than 33 years, I acknowledge the refugees issue as the major problem we have to solve and like everyone else wish that these people could be compensated for their loss as soon as possible either by return of land (north or south) where possible or a financial package, GCs must realize that if they wish to return to the north they will live in a TC state called the TRNC and if TCs wish to return south they will live in a GC state called whatever you wish. Why force a partnership when you can have 2 states side by side living just they have done for the last 33 years, peacefully.

Sorry to correct you, but you have lived in SECURITY with the help of the Turkish Army and not PEACEFULLY with your neighbours for the last 33 years. If you think the 200,000 GC refugees and their community are at peace with you for them being thrown out of their homes and property so that TC's and the settlers can have a better life than themselves, you do not understand the difference between the two. You cannot take away someone else's land by force and just offer them money to keep them off it as well as taking away their historic rights to their country by you wanting to declare a TC state. It will never happen. Do not look at other examples where states have broken away, because they were their own people and land before being forced into a union in recent history, so now they have broken away. Show me how that has any resemblance to Cyprus and it's people. The best that could have been the same in Cyprus, if the Ottomans when first arrived in Cyprus took the Northern 40% of Cyprus and only had Turks living there and the GC's living in the other 60%, then you can make a claim that the TC's had a 400 year history in the North and now wishes to declare independence from the rest of the island. So please, do not confuse peace with security, because the two are very much different from each other. As Kifeas had told you many times as well as others, you may only have a state with majority TC's in a True Federation, but that does not give you ownership of that state. Perhaps in 500 years or so, if the "TC state" continues to be predominantly TC's, then you can try to declare independence at that time. As you have already witnessed, by declaring independence prematurely as it was done 24 years ago, has not given you what you wanted. There are reasons for that, only you will need to accept the facts for those reasons and not your wishful thinking and hoping.

So we have another 350 years to go, so what as the division gets wider this period of time will get smaller, we are willing to wait as the alternative is not acceptable. You can manipulate and twist around words as much as you wish, the reality is that division has given the GCs a purely GC recognized state of their own and prosperity and for TCs security, peaceful exsistence, no discrimination, no persecution and even prosperity.