Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

So in effect you have answered your own question that TCs cannot do anything with their land in ho so democratic south, there are many obstacles placed in TCs path from the "RoC" "ministers" to the corrupt lawyers who use delaying tactics to slow down the legal process on the instructions of your beloved "RoC", fyi these offices in the GC state would never enquire to the TRNC as it would be tantamount to recognition.

You would do yourself and everyone else a great favor if you used less accusations of not telling the truth, your arrogance is riddled like the plague in your post and concentrated more on the injustice imposed on many innocent TCs who live in the TRNC and have not gotten anything for their land in the south in the north. You can make up your little excuses to camoflouge your worship for the GC states system of stopping TCs from havingjust as many problems with land issues when trying to claim their rights within a supposedly democratic EU country which has one set of rules for GCs and another for TCs, this makes your country the "RoC" a hypocrite and just as bad as the TRNC when it comes to land issues.

Democracy works both ways I'm afraid VP, and not when you only need it for your own purpose. You cannot blame the RoC for being careful not to reward some TC's who want to cash in their lands in the South, while they are sitting on GC land in the North. No doubt innocent TC's will also get hurt by this practice, but that is the condition the "TRNC" has created by giving away GC's properties with titles to those who do not own them, so blame your own government for being co-conspirators of distributing GC land.

I did not have a question, so I'm in no way answering my own question. I was answering your question that you put to me, as to if I understood about the TC's land situation in the RoC or was I clueless.?? So what do you think, am I clueless or not so.??

I must ask you this very important question regarding your mothers 100 Donums. Why didn't your mother sell her land to the "TRNC" so that she does not have to deal with the RoC.???? Why would she not want to keep her land in the hands of the "TRNC". You as a hater of the RoC, surely would have recommended to her to sell it to the "TRNC" and not the RoC. Would you please answer me this question.

Your question or rather claim was that TCs can get their rights to their land in the south easily and I asked you do you knwo anything about recliaming land you were very knowlegable and discredited your own claim displaying that its an uphill struggle to get land currently in the hands of the "RoC"

My mother is over 70 and has property in the north as well as the south, she is financial stable and will probably leave this land to her children. Why should she sell or exchange? we will probably do that when we inherit this land if the Cyprus problem is unsolved and if the TRNC offer another exchange package which they have not done so for many years. Life goes on we cannot stop everything and wait for the GCs to agree a solution as they have no intention of agreeing anything, not in my life time anyway.

[Kikapu]

I agreed with Kifeas has he cleverly incorporated a veto right for TCs when matters were sensative and could result in the TCs being effected negatively.

VP, what the hell are you talking about. You wanted safeguards in voting and Kifeas gave you one, so that you have a say so in your communities future and decision making. Where exactly does Kifeas's Plan effect the TC's in a negative way.

This is the formula crated by Kifeas, also known as "Kifeas's Plan" for POWER sharing in a Parliamentary system.

Quote:
If we have a house of 100 members (80 GCs plus 20 TCs) and decisions are taken on simple majority, it means that at least any 51 members out of the above 100 members will have to approve it. However, in order to qualify as simple majority, at least 4 (or 6) of the votes must come (included in the 51 votes needed) from the 20 TCs (20% or 30% of the TC members,) and at least 16 (or 24) of the votes must come from (included in the 51votes needed) from the 80 GCs.

For example we can have the following combination for simple majority to qualify.
I take a special case example that needs 30% minimum from each side.

Case 1:
6 TCs plus 45 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 2:
20 TCs plus 31 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 3:
5 TCs plus 46 GCs equals 51 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

Case 4:
1 TC plus 80 GCs equals 81 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

Read my quote again I agree with Kifeas on his proposals, what are you going on about?

I agreed with Kifeas has he cleverly incorporated a veto right for TCs when matters were sensative and could result in the TCs "NOT" being effected negatively.

In that case, you had left the word "not" out of your original sentence, which gave a different read to it. I have inserted the word "not" in the above quote, and now, it goes with what you wanted to say, which should read, that "Kifeas's Plan" is a positive to the TC's.

[Kikapu]

So in effect you have answered your own question that TCs cannot do anything with their land in ho so democratic south, there are many obstacles placed in TCs path from the "RoC" "ministers" to the corrupt lawyers who use delaying tactics to slow down the legal process on the instructions of your beloved "RoC", fyi these offices in the GC state would never enquire to the TRNC as it would be tantamount to recognition.

You would do yourself and everyone else a great favor if you used less accusations of not telling the truth, your arrogance is riddled like the plague in your post and concentrated more on the injustice imposed on many innocent TCs who live in the TRNC and have not gotten anything for their land in the south in the north. You can make up your little excuses to camoflouge your worship for the GC states system of stopping TCs from havingjust as many problems with land issues when trying to claim their rights within a supposedly democratic EU country which has one set of rules for GCs and another for TCs, this makes your country the "RoC" a hypocrite and just as bad as the TRNC when it comes to land issues.

Democracy works both ways I'm afraid VP, and not when you only need it for your own purpose. You cannot blame the RoC for being careful not to reward some TC's who want to cash in their lands in the South, while they are sitting on GC land in the North. No doubt innocent TC's will also get hurt by this practice, but that is the condition the "TRNC" has created by giving away GC's properties with titles to those who do not own them, so blame your own government for being co-conspirators of distributing GC land.

I did not have a question, so I'm in no way answering my own question. I was answering your question that you put to me, as to if I understood about the TC's land situation in the RoC or was I clueless.?? So what do you think, am I clueless or not so.??

I must ask you this very important question regarding your mothers 100 Donums. Why didn't your mother sell her land to the "TRNC" so that she does not have to deal with the RoC.???? Why would she not want to keep her land in the hands of the "TRNC". You as a hater of the RoC, surely would have recommended to her to sell it to the "TRNC" and not the RoC. Would you please answer me this question.

Your question or rather claim was that TCs can get their rights to their land in the south easily and I asked you do you knwo anything about recliaming land you were very knowlegable and discredited your own claim displaying that its an uphill struggle to get land currently in the hands of the "RoC"

My mother is over 70 and has property in the north as well as the south, she is financial stable and will probably leave this land to her children. Why should she sell or exchange? we will probably do that when we inherit this land if the Cyprus problem is unsolved and if the TRNC offer another exchange package which they have not done so for many years. Life goes on we cannot stop everything and wait for the GCs to agree a solution as they have no intention of agreeing anything, not in my life time anyway.

I always claimed, that TC's who own land in the RoC, still belongs to them and that it has not been given to others, even if the TC's have received "exchange GC land" in the "TRNC". Cashing in, is another matter as I explained before. Of course, the situation is not the same for the GC's, who's land in the North has been given away with titles. Slight difference don't you think.

Long life to your mother VP. My mother will be 81 in couple of weeks. I get the feeling Cypriot mothers live on forever, which is a good thing.

I'm happy that she wants to keep her land in the South intact and not sell it on the cheap either to the RoC or to the "TRNC". I just got the impression, that she wanted to sell it in the RoC, so my question was, why go through the bother, which she would not qualify as easily as if she never came back to to live in the "TRNC" since leaving in the early 60's. Alternatively, it would have been easier to sell it to the "TRNC", despite paying only few pennies on the Dollar. Talk about not being very compassionate to their own people by not paying the going rate for her land if she were to sell it. I also do not think that the "TRNC" is going to depress the land prices in the North, by "exchanging" any more GC land to the TC's anytime soon, if ever. They are still paying for their mistakes with their original bad judgement. Turkey is knocking on EU's membership door, will also not allow the "TRNC" to give away anymore GC land away.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

I always claimed, that TC's who own land in the RoC, still belongs to them and that it has not been given to others, even if the TC's have received "exchange GC land" in the "TRNC".

I disagree, if you have given up your land in the south for land in the north, you have lost rights to your land in the south forever. How else can you stop double dipping which I am totally against as the land which has been given will go someway towards compensating GCs in the future.

Long life to your mother VP. My mother will be 81 in couple of weeks. I get the feeling Cypriot mothers live on forever, which is a good thing.

To yours as well...where would we be without them.

I'm happy that she wants to keep her land in the South intact and not sell it on the cheap either to the RoC or to the "TRNC". I just got the impression, that she wanted to sell it in the RoC, so my question was, why go through the bother, which she would not qualify as easily as if she never came back to to live in the "TRNC" since leaving in the early 60's

Luckily she has never been in a financial situation where she has had to think about selling but many TCs have faced that dileama and as you know have exchanged and sold up to meet their needs.

Alternatively, it would have been easier to sell it to the "TRNC", despite paying only few pennies on the Dollar. Talk about not being very compassionate to their own people by not paying the going rate for her land if she were to sell it. I also do not think that the "TRNC" is going to depress the land prices in the North, by "exchanging" any more GC land to the TC's anytime soon, if ever. They are still paying for their mistakes with their original bad judgement.

The packages for exchanging land are declared every so often but as you know its who you know in the north just as it is in other small countries. If my mother wishes to give it to her children Im pretty certain if the current climate continues with regards to a solution we will decide to sell it through which ever route is available. The Cyprus problem could go on for another 1000 years and what would be the use of this land to me when Im dead and long gone.

Turkey is knocking on EU's membership door, will also not allow the "TRNC" to give away anymore GC land away.

You really are so naive...Turkey is not even near the EU house let alone knocking on its door, they are more concerned with the EU perspective than they are of getting in, so business as usual, disputed land exchanges hands everyday, with the right connections you can exchange land tomorrow if you wished.

[Nikitas]

"Turkey is knocking on EU's membership door, will also not allow the "TRNC" to give away anymore GC land away."

Which is precisely what Tony Blair, a great advocate of Turkish EU membership had in mind when he said during a Prime Minister question time in Parliament that "the property issue is a very, very sensitive issue". The sensitivity he was referring to had nothing to do with taking care of the property owners, or being sensitive to their loss. It is to do with the legal fact that the EU cannot accept forced expropriation of land.

Land is the ONLY source of real wealth in Cyprus. We have not yet reached the point of development where a person can make a fortune by other (legal) means. The biggest fortunes in Cyprus are connected to land and/or land development. Looking for ways to get people to agree to losing their land in any future settlement is like asking people to declare they are totally stupid. Cypriots are many things, stupid they are not.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

I always claimed, that TC's who own land in the RoC, still belongs to them and that it has not been given to others, even if the TC's have received "exchange GC land" in the "TRNC".

I disagree, if you have given up your land in the south for land in the north, you have lost rights to your land in the south forever. How else can you stop double dipping which I am totally against as the land which has been given will go someway towards compensating GCs in the future.

Turkey is knocking on EU's membership door, will also not allow the "TRNC" to give away anymore GC land away.

You really are so naive...Turkey is not even near the EU house let alone knocking on its door, they are more concerned with the EU perspective than they are of getting in, so business as usual, disputed land exchanges hands everyday, with the right connections you can exchange land tomorrow if you wished.

As far as "double dipping" by the TC's by accepting GC land in the North as an "exchange", they should have lost their land in the South, but legally the RoC can't do that. First of all, the GC owners of the land in the North have not agreed to do any kind of exchange, so where is the legality for the RoC to take away any TC land in the South. They will be committing land theft just like what the North has done. A TC just can't make a decision for someone else by saying, "I'm taking your land and here is mine in return". Even if that was the case, we still have the settlers who did not have any land against what they were given. Besides, the "TRNC" is holding the deeds on the TC's land in the South. Perhaps they think they can sell them to the GC's in the South, some day in the future.

You may remember, that my cousin's husband was ready to get me some stolen GC land, if I wanted, even though officially it was not available anymore to the general public. So it is obvious that "TRNC" is corrupt to it's core. As you said, with the right connections, you can buy and exchange stolen GC land. Do I need to say it one more time, that the "TRNC" has turned into
"Animal Farm".

Perhaps I gave you the wrong impression by saying that Turkey was knocking on EU's membership door. It's more like Turkey is sending letters inviting herself to become a EU member. But you are right, if Turkey can't stop illegal immigration into the "TRNC" with 40,000 troops, coming on a once a week Ferry service from Syria with only 20 passengers each time, they sure are not going to stop corrupt politicians lining their pockets with Haram money. Do you perhaps understand why I get pissed off with the "TRNC", it's because of these corrupt easy money making politicians are not going to lift a finger to find a solution, therefore we will have to wait until Turkey does reach to the EU door and then you will see some action on the ground..

[Kikapu]

GR how do you know all this stuff?

Living here and seeking out local news helps... You could fill up a book with such "TRNC" comedy acts!

Do you know how many Turkish Cypriots they find hanging off power poles/lines charcoaled who tried to tap into "free" power?

That just reminded of my childhood GR.

Living in Kucuk Kaymakli, around 7 years old, I stood on the window sill to try and push a wire over the window shutters. How the hell did I know, it was electricity wire. Let me tell you, the electricity would not let me go. I just could not release my hands from the power line, and the only way I was able to because I just slipped off the window sill and landed on my butt. It was on the ground floor. I never till today ever told my mother, as to what happened that day.

Honest GR, I was not trying to steal anyones electricity.

What a sad, touching, and amazing story!

I am very honored that you shared with us something your mother doesn't know but should!

I'm sure glad you survived it...

GR, the only thing that saved my life that day was GRAVITY, by falling off the window sill, so I was not about to tell my mother and risk my life again from spanking, because I'm sure she must have had told me not to mess around with those wires at some point.

She'll be 81 soon, and if I tell her now, I may still get spanking.

On a happier note, perhaps with all that electricity that entered me, may explains the reason why women light up like a
"Pinball Machine" when ever they get into bed with me.









(I just stole that line from a movie.....can anyone name the movie???)

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

As far as "double dipping" by the TC's by accepting GC land in the North as an "exchange", they should have lost their land in the South, but legally the RoC can't do that.

Ironically the TRNC have provided the bank for TC surrendered in the south and will be custodian until its time to give it up. GC authorities will not ask the TRNC for details on land that can stop double dipping as it would be tantamount to rocognition.

First of all, the GC owners of the land in the North have not agreed to do any kind of exchange, so where is the legality for the RoC to take away any TC land in the South. They will be committing land theft just like what the North has done.

Then surely if they view themselves as a law abiding EU country all prim and proper and are so arrogant as not to work with the north then they should give poople back their land without conditions to people they cliam are citizens, GCs are maters at shooting themselves in the foot.

A TC just can't make a decision for someone else by saying, "I'm taking your land and here is mine in return". Even if that was the case, we still have the settlers who did not have any land against what they were given. Besides, the "TRNC" is holding the deeds on the TC's land in the South. Perhaps they think they can sell them to the GC's in the South, some day in the future.

The TRNC has made a decision to distribute disputed land and if a solution comes we will either pay the price in full, part or get off scott free but seeing there is no solution there is no problem. The GCs can claim illegality but if their is no recourse or way of imposing a judgement in the TRNC then there is a stalemate just like we have today.

You may remember, that my cousin's husband was ready to get me some stolen GC land, if I wanted, even though officially it was not available anymore to the general public. So it is obvious that "TRNC" is corrupt to it's core. As you said, with the right connections, you can buy and exchange stolen GC land. Do I need to say it one more time, that the "TRNC" has turned into
"Animal Farm".

We have never claimed the TRNC is perfect we leave that to you and the GCs who in unision believe the GC state "RoC" is the champion of democracy and human rights.

Perhaps I gave you the wrong impression by saying that Turkey was knocking on EU's membership door. It's more like Turkey is sending letters inviting herself to become a EU member. But you are right, if Turkey can't stop illegal immigration into the "TRNC" with 40,000 troops, coming on a once a week Ferry service from Syria with only 20 passengers each time, they sure are not going to stop corrupt politicians lining their pockets with Haram money. Do you perhaps understand why I get pissed off with the "TRNC", it's because of these corrupt easy money making politicians are not going to lift a finger to find a solution, therefore we will have to wait until Turkey does reach to the EU door and then you will see some action on the ground..

If you want correuption look at Greece and Russia happen all over the world it is not unique to the TRNC, look towards your leader he dabbles in few contracts involving million for his family.

[boomerang]

The GCs can claim illegality but if their is no recourse or way of imposing a judgement in the TRNC then there is a stalemate just like we have today.

Is this proper english for someone that claims, was born in an english speaking country?

and not commenting on the spelling mistakes

[phoenix]

The GCs can claim illegality but if their is no recourse or way of imposing a judgement in the TRNC then there is a stalemate just like we have today.

Is this proper english for someone that claims, was born in an english speaking country?

and not commenting on the spelling mistakes

Maybe they are downgrading to become Turkified . . .