Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Lets start from the beginning Daemon so that there are no mistakes in you understanding me. I do not hate anyone, least of all my own people, the Cypriots, GC's and TC's alike. I don't even hate anyone from Turkey or Greece, so I hope we have cleared that misconception you may have had about me.

Now, I can see how you may have reached the wrong conclusion about me hating Turks or Motherland, because I tell it the way it is, and not try and shelter any wrong doings by my own people. If we are going to be honest in our conversations, then honesty has to be practiced, or else we are no different than the Nationalist and the Fascists.

Lets not kid ourselves with the land and property issues. The creation of the "TRNC" on stolen GC land is all about property ownership and control. Once having control of the North, it is designed to keep it and make it a pure Turkish state, and most plans that the TC's only agree to a settlement, is to make the North a permanent Turkish State. If land was not a issue, the TC's could easily have gotten the blessing of the GC's with full Partition agreement and recognition, if the TC's took their share of the land, which is at most, 20%. Why do you think the TC's won't go for this deal.?? Perhaps land ownership and control is more important, than having an agreed settlement.

The same can also be said about the GC's also. They too see the present problems, which is land and property. They do not want to lose their land to their fellow citizens, therefore no agreement can be reached, if it means, that the GC's will need to forgo their ancestral land to the TC's. The reason why I pick on my community about the land issue, is because they do not want to give any part of it, even though they know full well, that they are sitting on mostly stolen GC land. So you tell me, how we can move forward in any peace talks, if the land issues are not sorted out. That's why a BBF as the TC's interpret and want, will never be agreed by the GC's, because in effect, they are letting their land be taken over by the TC's and Turkey. In order to please everyone who genuinely wants peace and reconciliation, a Federal system of Government with North and South States, as the case is in the USA, is the best solution I can see for our island.

I put this solution proposal together not too long ago. I can assure you, not too many TC's jumped on this idea. I only got few supports from the GC's. For the TC's, it was clear that they could not be able to keep stolen GC land, may have been the reason why this plan was not supported. So, land and property issue is by no means a minor detail as to what each side wants for a solution.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12055

I'm personally not "in love" with any leadership whether it is in Cyprus or other parts of the world, so just because I pick on the TC's does not mean I approve what the others are doing, specially PapaD. That's why I rely on my friend Bananiot to make his case against the GC leadership on my behalf. This way, we can get more done by pointing out what each of our own sides are doing wrong

All this empty words does not really work for me since I’m always looking behind the words in their entity.

If you ask Bananiot or me about the nationalistic pig called Denktash or any other partitionist we will not afraid to answer about how ridiculous pig he and his son is.

I hate the fascist’s of your motherland as I hate mine; if you are claiming what you love or what there is a place for them in your world, then you are either a hypocrite or just a coward or you can’t understand the levels that hate can have.

As about your USA solution have some meaning only if a culture will be dominated or if there will be osmosis after a long time and no 10 years are not enough for osmosis, maybe you should express your personal hate in other multicultural federations and not hide behind the mono-cultural example of USA that have nothing to do with the Cyprus realities.

The properties issue was about to solved in a reasonable way through the a-plan that I’m guessing what you have voted yes for, because in any other case I will not be able to overpass your personal realities and your hypocrisy for any reason.

Do you live amongst us on earth Daemon or are you at some coo-coo land.???

Just because I do not hate any nation or their people, I'm a coward according to you.

Just because I'm not "in love" with any political leader, I love them all, according to you.

Just because I drew up a 10 year plan to set up 2 states under a True Federation, it's not long enough to have "osmosis" or "domination". You do not need to have neither one in a True Federation nor do the TC's want it.

So you think the USA is a Mono-cultural Society, do you??

What did you do, spend a weekend with a Polygamist with 10 wives and 30 kids all from one race in some remote area in a desert in Utah to reach that conclusion, that the USA is a Mono-cultural Society.???

One can not live in the West today and not be part of a Multicultural Society, and you think I hate Multiculturalism.???

Now I know why my good friend Miltiades had such a hard time communicating with you.

[Viewpoint]

Why not , Pakistanis and Indians and Africans are elected to Parliament in the UK , WHY NOT IN CYPRUS.
I would most certainly without a shadow of a doubt support and vote for a party that embraces T/C politicians , it takes courage but it is not beyond the boundaries or realm. The day will come when the likes of PhoeniX , Benelos and the great impostor VP will be laid to rest because they represent what is ugly and inhuman in Cyprus.
Long may the voices of reason continue to play a leading role benefiting our people , our island.

Yet again pure utopia, you havent got a clue...80% vs 20% imbalance would ensure Gcs vote their own in and TCs are left out in the cold, your we are all Cypriots crap will soon hit the fan when you get what you want a GC state with TCs reduced to just another minority. Thats why you are comfortable knowing you have the numerical advantage, you dupe people like Bir and Kiaiakpoulous.

For a man who was not even born in Cyprus , you have a weird way of interpreting my feelings . I disliked your views right from the start , I see in you an enemy of the people of Cyprus both the T/Cs , G/Cs and all other Cypriots. I have never come across such a blinkered fascist like you. You were born in the UK , You were brought up on a diet of pure hatred , I know hundreds if not 10s of hundreds of T/Cs in the UK . I have never never come across AGAINST AN INDIVIDUAL WITH SUCH DISCREDITED IDEAS AS YOU . You are , along with a number of other fanatical sickos , the poison of Cyprus , the type of an individual that would empty a magazine of bullets on innocent women and children purely because they are not part of his warped and nasty clan.
The difference between the two of us mate is that I consider the T/Cs as my people and you bloody well DONT . You only consider your own clan , that of the bloody fascists.
Go to hell mate , dont kid your self that the T/Cs are your people, I challenge you to put it to the vote on this forum , YOU WOULD LOSE.

You are the one pouring out venom in your posts not me, you may ask all the TCs that live here in the TRNC whether they support what I say but what will you do if they support my ideas, what will you think then? will you come down to earth from your utopia and dangerous crusade of trying to persuade TCs to accept "Cypriotism" knowing full well the dangers involved when GCs will take control of te whole island and do everything within their power to brush us under the carpet as a community.

[Viewpoint]

I agree with Miltiades about the need to have mixed political parties. The total separation of the communities along ethnic lines is nonsense. A TC communist has much in common with a GC communist, as would members of other political leanings have with their counterparts.

Having guarantees for the minority community is understandable, but the highest elected office in the country ought to be open to all citizens. It is improbable that a minority community citizen would be elected, but voting by all citizens for the president would make all parties sit and listen to the desires of all communities. The office of vice president could be reserved exclusivley for the TC community and they and only they vote for the Vice President. The result would be joint presidential campaigns with running mates selected before the elections and lots of cooperation at grass roots level. This is how true federations are run. What we had in Cyprus was an attempt to run two countries in one and inevitably it did not work.

Mixed Party 10% of the vote
GC Party 75% of the vote
TC Party 15% of the vote

Who wins? GCs are not mature enough to vote for a mixed party and seeing we will be left to the vote who vote along ethnic lines TCs will yet again be brushed to one side without any say in their own future.

[Viewpoint]

Yet again pure utopia, you havent got a clue...80% vs 20% imbalance would ensure Gcs vote their own in and TCs are left out in the cold, your we are all Cypriots crap will soon hit the fan when you get what you want a GC state with TCs reduced to just another minority. Thats why you are comfortable knowing you have the numerical advantage, you dupe people like Bir and Kiaiakpoulous.

Hello? The TC community IS "just another minority" because it certainly isn't a "special minority"!

On a different note VP, if one or more of your parents is Turkish you do realize you have no chance of being granted RoC citizenship? Is that why you're hell bent on partition?

Dont worry GR they were both born and bred right here on this island. Partition is the only solution as neither side is willing to compromise, if unificaiton were posssible it would have happened a long time ago.

[Viewpoint]

I agree with Miltiades about the need to have mixed political parties. The total separation of the communities along ethnic lines is nonsense. A TC communist has much in common with a GC communist, as would members of other political leanings have with their counterparts.

Having guarantees for the minority community is understandable, but the highest elected office in the country ought to be open to all citizens. It is improbable that a minority community citizen would be elected, but voting by all citizens for the president would make all parties sit and listen to the desires of all communities. The office of vice president could be reserved exclusivley for the TC community and they and only they vote for the Vice President. The result would be joint presidential campaigns with running mates selected before the elections and lots of cooperation at grass roots level. This is how true federations are run. What we had in Cyprus was an attempt to run two countries in one and inevitably it did not work.

Entirery correct , after all not only in the UK but throughout the world , political parties are open to all , not only to the dominant race or rather the numericaly larger . France has a president with strong Hungarian connections, Britain has a Scotish Prime minister , why not a Pancyprian party encompassing all Cypriots. I wonder what exactly VP means by the majority having the upper hand ? Perhaps he can tell us one or two detrimental effects that he believes the T/C would suffer . He often mentions the Pakistanis in the UK , WONDER WHAT HE MEANS BY THAT !!

How many Pakistanis are in Government? Are they indigenous to the UK or Pakistan?

[Viewpoint]

VP seems to be at a loss for words at the proposal that Turkish Cypriots are eligible to be elected as president and can also vote for the president. It would in effect make them powermakers in the state. No one who wants to be voted would dare ignore 18 per cent of the vote. In addition they would have a guaranteed position of vice president exculsively chosen by and from their community. Perhaps the idea is too radical for the partitionist frame of mind.

Wake up you plonker how may GCs would vote for a TC president, they would die first rather than see a TC in power.

[Viewpoint]

Are you telling us, your family has not gotten 100 Donums of stolen GC land in return, in the North, and at the same time, maintain ownership of their own 100 Donums in the RoC.?

Correct and there are many TCs famalies like us.

I got all the other answers...thanks., but the above has couple of question in one, so I don't know which one you answered "correct" to. Please clarify to what the "correct" was for.

1. Are you telling us, your family has not gotten 100 Donums of stolen GC land in return, in the North.??

2. ...and at the same time, maintain ownership of their own 100 Donums in the RoC.?

I have already answered question one, we have got nothing for this land in the TRNC.

And to your second question do you exactly know what I have to go through in your perfect "RoC" to claim my land? or are you yet again clueless?

Thanks for answering my above questions, and as for TC land in the RoC .....

Oh yes, more than you think I know and it doesn't look too good for the TC's in the event of a settlement, if they have not kept up with the paperwork after each passing away of the registered owners.!!

I assume the GC's have been making the changes of ownership of their land with the legal system and within their families, but I think most TC's are resigned to believing the "TRNC" and it's establishment is going to stay for ever, and have not kept up with the legal paperwork or the adjustment of ownership of their land within their families and according with the Cyprus Constitution and land ownership requirements.

Could you kindly answer my question as I answered yours, its called common courtesy.

I already gave you an answer, which was "Oh yes, more than you think I know".

I did not know that you wanted the information in detail.

I never claimed that the RoC is perfect by the way.

The least problematic way of a TC getting their land back in the RoC is as follows.

1. You are the ONLY one who is registered as the land owner of that property.
2. You were not living in Cyprus at the time of the Invasion in 1974.
3. You have not lived in the "TRNC" since 1983, own, bought and sold GC property, including the "exchanged land" that was given to TC's against their land in the RoC.

Those who do not meet the basic rules above, also needs to live in the RoC for six months.

If you meet all of the above, your land is waiting for you in the RoC to do as you wish VP.

It gets more complicated as each situation is different. If you want to give me the complete history of your family's land in the RoC, then I can tell you all the difficulties in getting the land back due to circumstances.

For instance, who owns the 100 Donums. Is it you, your father/ mother, your grandfather/grandmother, does your great uncles and uncles and cousins have a share in the 100 Donums. Was the land passed down to family members by a "WIL" or was it "PROBATE" and the whole legal work was done in the RoC under Cypriot Laws and not the "TRNC" which is not recognised. Did some family members go through the "point assignment" system in the "TRNC" to be given "exchanged land" and the 100 Donums was split in smaller pieces, and some of your relatives have gotten GC land in return for their share in the 100 Donums. Also, is the 100 Donums ONE Parcel of land or many. If one Parcel and other family members also have a share in it, also a big problem.

Anyway, if you want to list all of your families information, I might be able to give you more information.

The land is my mothers who is alive.

She lives in the TRNC.

She has not exchanged it for disputed land.

What does she have to do?

Can she sell it? as she has no intention of ever going back.

[Viewpoint]

Why not , Pakistanis and Indians and Africans are elected to Parliament in the UK , WHY NOT IN CYPRUS.
I would most certainly without a shadow of a doubt support and vote for a party that embraces T/C politicians , it takes courage but it is not beyond the boundaries or realm. The day will come when the likes of PhoeniX , Benelos and the great impostor VP will be laid to rest because they represent what is ugly and inhuman in Cyprus.
Long may the voices of reason continue to play a leading role benefiting our people , our island.

Yet again pure utopia, you havent got a clue...80% vs 20% imbalance would ensure Gcs vote their own in and TCs are left out in the cold, your we are all Cypriots crap will soon hit the fan when you get what you want a GC state with TCs reduced to just another minority. Thats why you are comfortable knowing you have the numerical advantage, you dupe people like Bir and Kiaiakpoulous.

I have given the TC's best possible solution short of a Partition with this PLAN
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12055 , but it is not good enough to you, because you do not want a solution but instead a Partition, so it is not worth the effort to talk sense to you.

If you want me to continue being civil with you, watch what you write.

Please read my responses to your plan and remind yourself of the outcome.

What do you want me to watch???

[Nikitas]

Viewpoint said:

"Wake up you plonker how may GCs would vote for a TC president, they would die first rather than see a TC in power. "

Of all the post this is what you understood!!! You do not appreciate that the TC community with 18 per cent of the vote will decide WHO becomes president. The only thing you want to have is a TC for president! You are so unimaginative!!

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint said:

"Wake up you plonker how may GCs would vote for a TC president, they would die first rather than see a TC in power. "

Of all the post this is what you understood!!! You do not appreciate that the TC community with 18 per cent of the vote will decide WHO becomes president. The only thing you want to have is a TC for president! You are so unimaginative!!

With 82% of the vote in your favor your response is only to be expected. Please clarify how 18% will swing into power against a racist and despot GC community, we will be at the mercy of GCs.