Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Number one- our Turkisch Cypriots do not share the culture of Anatolia and obviously there are no honor killings among them.

Two- the settlers have brought with them their culture and if you want to know the attitude of Turkish Cypriots to settlers read Tim's excellent posts on the subject or visit the north and ask for yourselves.

Three- The settlers are not likely to change their ways because they are in Cyprus. In Germany where they are not the dominant culture by any means Turks are one of the slowest communitied to integrate. Those of you who have been there will know this. In Cyprus the settlers are becoming the dominant culture and soon will swamp the local one.

Four- It is a bullshit argument to equate domestic violence and abuse which occurs in ALL countries with honor killings.

Now to get to the point of the thread about bringing the north into the fold. They are the ones that imposed separation and exclusion. The fold is open if they want to come in. And they are members of the European Union but they CHOOSE not to apply the EU legal order. If they did apply it most of the Cyprus issue would be automatically solved. So let us cut the crap about folds and nonsense. And please- let us not start about if you had not done X in 1963 etc. The EU legal order is applicable NOW and it contains rules of civilised conduct for TODAY. You either apply it or you dont, it has nothing to do with 1963 or 1974.

[zan]

Zan , you know me well enough I think . I condemn all senseless violent acts especially those acts that are a direct result of attitudes that belong to the dark ages. It unfortunate that in some parts of Turkey honour killings , which are barbaric to say the least , still occur. Such acts are prevalent in the M.East , Jordan being one of the worst offenders. I KNOW THAT NO T/C condones such acts I'm questioning the influence of the new comers to Cyprus with a culture not that distant from those committing such vile acts.
Violence against women is a disgrace for any nation but it is a fact that it does happen .
Your comparisons on violence against women in Cyprus does not stand up as a logical analogy with honour killings committed by father against daughter , brother against sister for the crime of smiling at a man. You know that in some parts of Turkey in most of the M.East the honour of a household rests comfortably between a woman's legs , dare she open them or have them FORCIBLY OPENED and bang , the Honour has gone ! What medieval beliefs.

My question was a rhetorical one Miltiades because I already knew the answer you were going to give. I am just disappointed that such an intelligent man chooses to (over and over again) take problems that are endemic and use them in such a fashion.......I get this sort of response from the no brain plumbers and builders that I have to work with and when I am on this Forum I expect a better class of person that can engage me in intellectual ideas and reasoning that I would only get teased for even mentioning on site. You are exhibiting the same kind of prejudice that those idiots do when they see a family of Eastern Europeans, eating as a family, eating there supper cross legged on the floor. They point out the obvious difference and use the table an chair as the only method for such an activity although noe of them sit with their family and have supper in front of the television on a tray on their laps. Nothing to do with honour killings I know but the comparison is that murder is as old as the hills no matter what part of the world it comes from and so is any other form of violence against any other human being. Honour killings by nature and therefore is endemic to the Muslim world so the need to point this out is futile by its own nature just as being black is endemic to Africa. It is right to try and correct these wrongs but the fashion you use these crimes to condemn an entire people is blatant racism. Football hooligans, Paki bashing, queer bashing, drug taking, alcohol abuse, break down of society and shootings in the streets of children are also worthy of your anger and must be put into the same category and I am sure you do but you seem to be able to separate these from what goes on in the Muslim world. It was not that long ago that entire generations of women where treated to the western world version of honour killings and that was to send them away from the family. Of course the modern version of western honour killings still goes on but the victim is different...Abortion. Have you bothered to find out the difference in numbers of how many honour killings go on on and how many abortions there are in the west...I bet the difference is vast and shocking....

Lets stop all this racist shit and take the time to sit on the floor with our fellow human beings and take supper with them. Though our backs ache and it feels different it can only help us grow. We can ask the same of the British when they ask why we beat our wives being Cypriots and mediterranean. We can say....I don't but I know a man who does.

[miltiades]

Zan , also note that it was not many years ago when respectable ENGLISH families would take their children to feed the Lions and Tigers in London Zoo with live cats !! The world moves on , the Romans used to throw Christians to Lions it does not mean that one is a racist at expressing his disgust that certain cultures are still practising barbaric events .
The Greeks also had their share of honour killings , I remember as a child listening to those perpetrators shouting I Killed for my honour !! In Crete some 100 or so years ago the brother had to de-virgin his sister so that the honour would remain in the family, if a brother was not available a cousin or even the father would oblige do not see why you get so uptight at any criticism of Turkey , after all Turkey is not a nation that one would look to for intellectual guidance
and it was on this matter that I posted the reports on honour killings. The T/Cs are by far more advanced in every field of "culturistic" activities than Turkey. Most settlers are of a different culture to the Cypriots and are highly unlikely to change. You have nothing to learn from Turkey any more than the G/Cs have anything to learn from Greece. Installing huge flags is not exactly an intellectual refinement rather a denigration of an individuals propensity to act reasonably.

[zan]

Zan , also note that it was not many years ago when respectable ENGLISH families would take their children to feed the Lions and Tigers in London Zoo with live cats !! The world moves on , the Romans used to throw Christians to Lions it does not mean that one is a racist at expressing his disgust that certain cultures are still practising barbaric events .
The Greeks also had their share of honour killings , I remember as a child listening to those perpetrators shouting I Killed for my honour !! In Crete some 100 or so years ago the brother had to de-virgin his sister so that the honour would remain in the family, if a brother was not available a cousin or even the father would oblige do not see why you get so uptight at any criticism of Turkey , after all Turkey is not a nation that one would look to for intellectual guidance
and it was on this matter that I posted the reports on honour killings. The T/Cs are by far more advanced in every field of "culturistic" activities than Turkey. Most settlers are of a different culture to the Cypriots and are highly unlikely to change. You have nothing to learn from Turkey any more than the G/Cs have anything to learn from Greece. Installing huge flags is not exactly an intellectual refinement rather a denigration of an individuals propensity to act reasonably.

Again, the flags do not represent the entire nation as such and if you were to spend a little time in looking at something that Turkey does well, like brain surgery for instance you would not condemn them every one. Turkey sets trends for the entire middle east and that is done through Europe if you use the side door that is. They are the ones that will educate the middle east and if it were not for religion this process would be much quicker in filtering through. I don't like the idea of tarring an entire people with the same brush and that has been evident in all I write about the GC people. Try doing the same. There are a lot of Turks I hate and a hell of a lot I love.......

[humanist]

Nikitas point four was mentioned as a point of interest for some. You know my stance about 63 and 74. reality is Cypriots currently residing in the north either do not wish to be part of EU or are unable to do so.