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[phoenix]

who said God is a he?

as for an explanation of why bad things happen to good people, there is a reason for everything, we may not ever understnad what it is, but good things do come out of bad events.

I believe in miracles because GorillaGal has written a coherent sentence with only one spelling mistake! (Please forgive her lack of capitals) . . .

[alexISS]

Too long to read it...summary please or the conclusion which is even shorter.

Oh come on... make the effort and read it, it's definately worth your time!

[LENA]

Too long to read it...summary please or the conclusion which is even shorter.

Oh come on... make the effort and read it, it's definately worth your time!

Havent slept all night and now I have work to do...do you want to put me to bed at this time? Come on make the effort and summarize it since it worth it so much!

[Piratis]

This is what I said before and I this is how I think of it...

Imagine if we built a really hi-tech computer that could actually function and think for itself (we probably already can, but imagine if it was extremely intelligent and almost had a life within that computer). An artificial intelligence if you like, controlling the security of a big building for instance. It does everything on its own but has no idea of our (it's creators) existance.

It doesn't know we (humans) exist, but lets say it has the capability of "imagining" what it's creator is like. Would a computer ever be able to imagine/guess how we have skin, eyes, mouth, teeth, how we have to floss, brush our teeth, drive cars, have children etc etc...NO!

I think that a similar concept applies to God. God is as different to us as we would be to that computer. It's as hard for us to guess what God is as it would be for that computer to guess what a human is and how a human works. It would be impossible for the computer to guess what tools we used in order to assemble it and neither can we when it comes to our creator.

IMPORTANT: I'm just using the computer as a metaphor by the way!

I think of God as a totally different form of existance/reality or whatever you want to call it. One we cannot ever comprehend, imagine or even visualise but I definately believe in a "higher being".

Plus there is just no point in trying to establish what God is by using the rules of life down here (in the universe). If there is a God then hes "above" everything we know since he created it all, so none of it would necessarily apply to him.

So we couldn't say "Who made God" because whos to say whatever God is needs to be made?

It's deep, but I love thinking about this stuff...

Interesting theory. But still there is a difference between a "higher being which created something" and "the highest being which created everything". For me what you describe is not a God, unless you would also call as God the person who would design that supercomputer of yours.

In any case what I was trying to say with my previous post is that we will probably never know the truth. So we can just imagine and have theories. Some theories are totally stupid (e.g. most religions), while some other theories might seem more intelligent, but still they are just theories that come out of a human beings imagination and nothing more.

So the most right we can be is to simply admit that we do not know what the truth is, and while theories can be interesting, we shouldn't turn those theories in beliefs.

The reason the computer would have to imagine what it's creator would look like is because it was never given the answer to that question. Why not just come clean and tell it or show it if you gave it eyes as well. Are you ashamed of your creation. Have you come to the conclusion that you have created something that is not perfect and you cannot put what ever imperfections there are right. Have you abandoned your creation and left it to it's own devises but your ego is so big that you will not just go back once more and take out the pointless prayer chip you installed. You gave it eyes and now you have to hide in the corners so it will not see you. Are the Miracles a self running programme or do you pop in out of site and put a few wrongs right just to confuse and remind the computer that you do exist but you don't as it were. Why not just pull the plug and start again with a new "iLife" a better version that is less likely to corrupt.

"Please god make this world a better place"

"UH UH! Access denied"

Zan you know nothing about computers and AI mate, give it up

In T_Cs example the super-computer was developed to be a security system for a building. Life was created within this system by accident and through evolution of billions years (about 1 day in human years) intelligence appeared. The creators of the super-computer are not even aware that this has happened. In fact they don't even care as long as the system is acting "naturally" monitoring the building as it should.

Furthermore the way humans exist is so different than life within the computer that the two worlds would not be able to communicate even if they were aware of each others existence.

During the next billion years (1 more human day) the intelligence within the computer has far surpassed anything humans ever imagined. They have in fact spread in many areas around the network where they discovered other, strange forms of intelligence that they were able to decode and understand, giving them a further technological boost. In fact they are so advanced that soon they will discover what was thought impossible: THE TRUTH about how the (=their) universe was created!! You can imagine how disappointed they will be. Just hope they are nice, or else we are screwed.

There you go T_C. Yet another theory. There might be a creator "higher being", but it might be more stupid than us and not even know how we came to exist.

[zan]

How can I not know what AI is when you display it so well before my eyes......Read between the lines Piratis. The whole point is that whether it knows it created or not it is not worth worrying about or praying to! We are on our own and we can never prove it even exists..It is just a myth in this existence and just like aleISS' post (Which was great by the way alexISS) it is in hyperspace with our thoughts and the original creator is us anyway.

[phoenix]

Mathematics is the nearest you can get to a "miracle" and hence by conjecture . . . to a "god".

It has always existed and no other discipline can claim such certainty. Once the proof or TRUTH of a proposition is established, it will exist unassailable for EVER.

Computers on the other hand are human creations and will always be fallible. When computers are used to check proofs even in mathematics, their results introduce uncertainty because of the possibility of programming error.

[GorillaGal]

Miracles happen when you believe and when you make that wish known. From cosmic ordering to Christianity it is evident that miracles happen. The main issue is to find out how to initiate them request them in such a way that they will materialise.

You said it!
this is the most intelligent thing said in this thread so far.

[GorillaGal]

who said God is a he?

as for an explanation of why bad things happen to good people, there is a reason for everything, we may not ever understnad what it is, but good things do come out of bad events.

I believe in miracles because GorillaGal has written a coherent sentence with only one spelling mistake! (Please forgive her lack of capitals) . . .

cute.... thanks Phoenix! my fingers don't work half as fast as my brain.

[alexISS]

Too long to read it...summary please or the conclusion which is even shorter.

Oh come on... make the effort and read it, it's definately worth your time!

Havent slept all night and now I have work to do...do you want to put me to bed at this time? Come on make the effort and summarize it since it worth it so much!

Save it for tomorrow then!

[T_C]

Mathematics is the nearest you can get to a "miracle" and hence by conjecture . . . to a "god".

It has always existed and no other discipline can claim such certainty. Once the proof or TRUTH of a proposition is established, it will exist unassailable for EVER.

Computers on the other hand are human creations and will always be fallible. When computers are used to check proofs even in mathematics, their results introduce uncertainty because of the possibility of programming error.

I will get back to everyone tonight on this when I have more time to write...but just quickly, while I agree with Pheonix, again we are making the same mistake...

YES mathmatics can prove everything BUT we are talking about God here!

Going back to my metaphor (and I am just using this as a means to make a comparison, so don't take it literally)...just like we have maths the computer would have it's computer codes and for the time being let's imagine that the computer codes ARE the computers equal to our maths, like for instance, the codes that we input to build a program on a computer.

The codes ONLY apply within that computer......