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Is this a genuine document?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:52 am

As I have said I am willing to take 1 while they are taking 3, but I am not willing to loose 1 while they are gaining.


- Disproportional share on executive body is not fair. By amending this provision into proportional to population ratio, we make it fair. Thus, we made it rational and gained the trust of other side while they gained one of the unfairly restricted rights. But if you tell other side "I accept the reduction of my executive share to be reduced to the population ratio of TC community"; other side will tell you "Do you think I'm stupid or what? Your executive share should have already been proportional to population ratio." And they will hate you more than before because of you were trying to cheat them. A kind of common cheat law.

- Political equality is a must because TCs need a real time protection system in political structure to guard their interests, effectively participate on decision making on every issue they have interests or concerns. Otherwise there's no need for TC participation in Senate. For everything we convict that unfair for us, we can go supreme court or ECHR. We rot our lives at the doors of Supreme Court and ECHR. This is completely absurd. Our name will be "politically equal" constituent community but we won't have the right to effectively participate on every decision that we too have interests or concerns. This is irrational and is not viable. GC community should genuinely acknowledge the "political equality" of two communities. In return, they will gain our trust. Moreover we will both gain a viable political structure.


All other issues also can easily be solved on rationale and legal basis dimension.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:15 am

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Postby Piratis » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:36 am

This is why contracts exist. If goodwill and trust was enough, people would never have to make a contract.

A good solid contract without vague areas is what is needed first. Good agreements make the good friends.

A good agreement can work with some goodwill. A bad agreement will always fail. What are the good agreements? The ones that are based on human rights, democracy and other universally accepted ideals.
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Postby insan » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:54 pm

I agree with Piratis. In the end we will ratify the agreements we have reached. I can't understand what you are trying to say, turkcyp. your method of trying to solve the problems definitely would end up deadlock. Otherside at the negotiating table is neither stupid nor naive. Solving the Cyprus problem needs ultra-intelligence and defending your rationales on the legal basis not nonsense give and take that is obvious to end up with no fruit from the very first day.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:57 am

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Postby Piratis » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:36 am

All TRNC, all the resettlements, that TCs did, all the unconstitutional things that GCs did, like EU, etc. etc.


EU membership is not unconstitutional. This has been discussed before. While you have a point between 63-74, after that you can not compare the illegal TRNC with RoC. RoC is the legally entity, and it always was, even if you didn't participate (after 74 this was exclusively your fault not ours).

What I am against is at step 6 sitting down and saying to GCs that “OK. 30% was not fair, let’s change it” without mentioning other parts of document that I think which is not fair.


Are you really sure that what you will ask for is something that was unfair for TCs? I can think of some things (e.g. Greek anthem, TC not be able to be elected as president etc) but I have a feeling that what you will ask for is again something unfair for us. If it is truly unfair for TCs, then I would have no problem to change it.

Can you tell us of what you consider unfair for TCs in RoC?
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:33 am

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Postby Piratis » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:41 pm

After 74 you decided yourselves that you didn't want to participate in the legal state of Cyprus. You can not blame RoC. What did you expect? To stop functioning and wait until you decided to return?

And I asked you what you consider unfair for TCs about 1960 agreements. You didn't answer. This is an open forum, not a closed discussion between me and you. So tell us what you consider unfair for TCs, and then everybody can judge your opinion.
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Postby turkcyp » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:10 am

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Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:46 am

Life did not start on 1974 on this island Piratis


It didn't start in 1963, 1960, or 1571 either.

The period of 63-74 we were not allowed to participate in RoC

You can not blame exclusively GCs for your non participation. TCs, that always dreamed about partition, found the chance to fulfill their dream (directed by Turkey)

you immediately start your analysis, after 1974. Typical of you.


No, I already said in the post before:
While you have a point between 63-74, after that you can not compare the illegal TRNC with RoC.


But at that point in 1974, there was no RoC to participate in.

There is a difference between not functioning the way it should, and not existing. RoC existed in 74 just like it exists today.

a big sign of your greediness

We were never as greedy as you are. We never asked for a portion of anything twice and trice bigger like you do.

It is called power politics. But if you want to stop power politics, that is fine by me. I told you we can turn back to 1963 conditions the way I have explained 3 posts ago. You get your land back, we get our rights back, and start talking from that point on, if it sounds fair to you.


I have no problem with this. What I have a problem with is your "Unfair? Tough luck for you" comment. Such comments clearly do not show the goodwill you like to refer to.

Do you really expect me to bargain on something I do not currently hold. IF I start bargaining on 1960 constitutional rights right now, you will never agree on anything, because de facto I do not have any rights anyway. This is what you were doing in 1970 anyway. You stole our rights first and then were trying to force us to accept the things we normally would not accept. Now we are holding the upper hand. We got your land and are asking you to accept things that you normally would not accept.


1) So is stopping power politics fine with you or not?
2) Are you sure you are holding the upper hand? You got the land, but we have the recognition and we have our EU veto power. If we lost the "upper hand" in 74, we lost it to Turkey, not to TCs. You don't look very victorious to me :wink:
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