Cyprus-Forum.com

[Saint Jimmy]

Your own quote back at you Saint. Very diplomatic answer but at some stage you to will see what I see now.

So, you see things I don't see, huh? That sounds to me like you either know a lot, or that you know nothing.
What is it that you see? You got disappointed in GCs because they voted NO, but that doesn't make much sense to me. GCs voted NO because they believed that the A-Plan would have opened hell's gates. You must also know that GCs are not generally legal experts. Their beliefs on a legal document were based on interpretations by people that they consider more suitable to comment on it - lawyers (most of our politicians are lawyers). Insan has made the distinction between the ruling elite and the people a zillion times.
And I don't buy the argument that we can't agree on anything in here, so that's that. What we can't agree on (a solution) is still up for debate - hence, we have a debate. Once the issue is resolved, people will stop talking about its form and how to better it, and will take it for granted. The variables that fucked this process up the first time around are dead and buried.

[Viewpoint]

insan

On the other hand negative stance of Greek side has already frustrated the TCs and most of them lost their hopes for reunification. Partition thought growing day by day among TCs.

I agree totally Insan, its just that GCs dont want to see that the tide is changing towards partition for TCs. Even if the next plan gave us total control of the whole island it would still be voted down. What comes around goes around.

[Saint Jimmy]

What comes around goes around.

True. But what 'went around' this time was that 76% of GCs felt the plan wasn't fair (wrongly so, imo, but that doesn't change the facts). If that's what 'comes around', then it's only natural: if TCs feel that a plan isn't fair to them, they'll vote it down, of course!
That's not exactly inventing the wheel...

But that's not what you're saying, is it...?

[Viewpoint]

Saint Jimmy

You got disappointed in GCs because they voted NO

Disillusioned with GCs real motives for a soluiton would have been a better way to put it.

GCs voted NO because they believed that the A-Plan would have opened hell's gates.

Hell gates letting TCs out? or having to share recognition and political equality.

Their beliefs on a legal document were based on interpretations by people that they consider more suitable to comment on it - lawyers

So you were advised and persuaded to vote No by your politicians, you couldnt decide for yourselves because you have to be a legal expert.

And I don't buy the argument that we can't agree on anything in here, so that's that. What we can't agree on (a solution) is still up for debate - hence, we have a debate.

Im not referring to agreeing on anything, I taking about a solution, you will still be on this forum trying to agree on that non existent solution for many many many years to come if of course you live that long.

The variables that fucked this process up the first time around are dead and buried.

Those very variables look like they are on the way back, just read the recent press coverage (taking it that you are refering to Annan plan).

[Saint Jimmy]

Disillusioned with GCs real motives for a soluiton would have been a better way to put it.

Is that to say that you believe that GCs' motives were other than their belief that the A-Plan was unfair???

Hell gates letting TCs out? or having to share recognition and political equality.

Hell's gates letting out unworkability, functional dead-ends and eventual collapse of the United Republic of Cyprus. (I've already told you that I don't believe in any of that, but apparently 76% of GCs did)

So you were advised and persuaded to vote No by your politicians, you couldnt decide for yourselves because you have to be a legal expert.

Is that irony? Could you decide on whether the A-Plan was a federation or a confederation if no legal expert described the difference to you? You might say 'it doesn't matter whether it's a federation or anything else' (and you'd probably be right), but GCs have been conditioned to be really careful with labels and terms. But that's another long story.

Im not referring to agreeing on anything, I taking about a solution, you will still be on this forum trying to agree on that non existent solution for many many many years to come if of course you live that long.

Nah, now you're just being pessimistic. Could it be that this is why T-Pap is so reluctant to start the ball rolling? Because he knows that this time it's for real, and that he's going to have to go all the way, and that's why he's being too careful to not get dragged down the wrong road? Could be...

Those very variables look like they are on the way back, just read the recent press coverage (taking it that you are refering to Annan plan).

No, I was referring to the variables that fucked up the process in 1963. Enosis/Taksim, different political outlooks, the then idealization of armed struggle for what they believed in, it's all gone now.

[brother]

Piratis wrote:
Metecyp, in my apartment I have a rifle and 200 bullets. If I want to use them against you, would it matter what the kind of solution it will be?

I deplore any person that incites violence even as an example and if the mentality of many GC is like what piratis is displaying then i do NOT ever want to be united with you the GC.
At the moment i find it hard to swallow you have guns and bullets in your homes after 1974, i still remember when the EOKA people were running around trying to kill us or burn us in our homes and now there is people out there like piratis who on other occasions has made reference to his guns and the change of power which he see's as millataryt strength and that they would forcefully take cyprus.
With this mentality let me assure you all any attack on any TC will result in you losing all credibility and opening a can of worms that will eat you up.

AFTER ALL WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH SHAME ON YOU PIRATIS.

[Saint Jimmy]

Brother,

I agree with everything you wrote, although I think Piratis didn't exactly mean what you got from his post. Still, that's up to him to clarify.

What I wanted to point out is that you may have got the wrong picture here. You know that all army reserves have a rifle and bullets at home, in case of an emergency. What you may not know, however, is that these bullets and rifles don't fly around the RoC. The bullets, especially, are sealed in a metal box and can't be opened for any reason. They are checked every couple of months by the army authorities, and any discrepancies are punished severely. As far as I can remember, there has only been one incident in recent years, in which these bullets have been used for criminal purposes. Generally, they are not a problem - not even a potential one. To 99.9% of us, they are just a nuisance - we don't want them, nor the rifle (because, if anything happens to them, we got to answer to some army schmuck about it), but the army's laws state that when we are dismissed we have to have them at home.

[brother]

But surely you understand our concerns as we do not have any weapons at home and when turkey withdraws its army from cyprus we would effectively be defenceless if any fools decided to open these boxes and go on a tc killing rampage........, i am a father of 2 children who i want to bring up in a civilised and safe environment and the comments made recently really rattled me and the fact there is thousands of rifles and bullets in homes of civilians.

ANY SOLUTION IN MY OPINION SHOULD MAKE SURE NOT ONE CIVILIAN HAS A WEAPON OR A SINGLE BULLIT AT HOME, THIS IS NON-DEBATEABLE.

Beyond that i am very upset at what was said by piratis, i know it was directed at metecyp but still it encompesses me aswell as a tc.

[boulio]

brother i understand the t/c concern about the gun and bullets in g/c houses but do t/c understand the g/c concern with 40,000 crack turkish troops a few hunred meters away and the need to keep these guns and bullets in there homes.

[brother]

The army will leave when we reach solution but can you say the same for these guns and bullits in homes, also not to sound like i am quoting but there are around 35000 troops on the gc side to counter the turkish millatary, also the millatary obeys orders, civillians can have a bad day and go on a rampage as we see all over the world.