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HOW THEY CAN DO THAT????

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Postby phoenix » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:46 pm

Nikitas wrote:Childrens cardiosurgery, the man was the professor, the hospital in London, he was interviewd by the BBC and his interview beamed on Greek TV last year. He said that monkeys, baboons if i recall, are vital for his doctor students to master delicate surgery techniques. Cadavers are used in the second year anatomy and pathology classes by medical students not qualified doctors. This man does not play, his life is dedicated to saving children and he did say that if the animal protesters prevail he would be forced to give up his profession. In my book parent who lose their children as a result would be totally justified to find the Peta campaign managers and extract revenge, but that is the Cypriot in me asserting himself.



Green fuels that turn land used to feed people (and animals) into feedlots for cars. Mixing ecology with animal rights is one sure and fast way back to the Middle Ages. Not all things ecological are kind to animals and not all kind things to animals are ecological. Synthetic fur, for instance and non animal fibers in general are petrochemical derived. Petrol, the reason on million Iraqis lost their lives!


OK Nikitas all this and the previous posts are very rational and pro-Human.

But HOW can you justify these practices morally and ethically?

Why should animals give up their life, or suffer for us?
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Postby miltiades » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:45 am

phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Childrens cardiosurgery, the man was the professor, the hospital in London, he was interviewd by the BBC and his interview beamed on Greek TV last year. He said that monkeys, baboons if i recall, are vital for his doctor students to master delicate surgery techniques. Cadavers are used in the second year anatomy and pathology classes by medical students not qualified doctors. This man does not play, his life is dedicated to saving children and he did say that if the animal protesters prevail he would be forced to give up his profession. In my book parent who lose their children as a result would be totally justified to find the Peta campaign managers and extract revenge, but that is the Cypriot in me asserting himself.



Green fuels that turn land used to feed people (and animals) into feedlots for cars. Mixing ecology with animal rights is one sure and fast way back to the Middle Ages. Not all things ecological are kind to animals and not all kind things to animals are ecological. Synthetic fur, for instance and non animal fibers in general are petrochemical derived. Petrol, the reason on million Iraqis lost their lives!


OK Nikitas all this and the previous posts are very rational and pro-Human.

But HOW can you justify these practices morally and ethically?

Why should animals give up their life, or suffer for us?


As an animal lover , a dog owner most of my life , anti hunting , and totaly against animal cruelty , I do however differentiate between vermin and other animals. Flies , mosquitoes , maggots are all living things , do we listen to the vegetarian idiots that dictate killing a rat as cruelty to animals , or eating a chicken as a crime against humanity ?
Meat has been consumed by humans since the beginning of time , we all have a choice and we can all exercise it without stopping others from enjoying a steak !! The medical world has made huge strides in many fields as a result of animal experiments , sad as it is it is far more ""acceptable"" to use a baboon or a rat instead of a child .
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Postby zan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:26 pm

phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Childrens cardiosurgery, the man was the professor, the hospital in London, he was interviewd by the BBC and his interview beamed on Greek TV last year. He said that monkeys, baboons if i recall, are vital for his doctor students to master delicate surgery techniques. Cadavers are used in the second year anatomy and pathology classes by medical students not qualified doctors. This man does not play, his life is dedicated to saving children and he did say that if the animal protesters prevail he would be forced to give up his profession. In my book parent who lose their children as a result would be totally justified to find the Peta campaign managers and extract revenge, but that is the Cypriot in me asserting himself.



Green fuels that turn land used to feed people (and animals) into feedlots for cars. Mixing ecology with animal rights is one sure and fast way back to the Middle Ages. Not all things ecological are kind to animals and not all kind things to animals are ecological. Synthetic fur, for instance and non animal fibers in general are petrochemical derived. Petrol, the reason on million Iraqis lost their lives!


OK Nikitas all this and the previous posts are very rational and pro-Human.

But HOW can you justify these practices morally and ethically?

Why should animals give up their life, or suffer for us?


We can breed special breeds of animals that DO actually want to "Give up their lives".....Would that satisfy you????


Lena
This is worse than that video I posted that made you jump.....I lasted to the point that that poor animal was gasping for breath after being slammed into the ground. :cry:
Medicine is one thing but fashion???? :roll:
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Re: HOW THEY CAN DO THAT????

Postby EPSILON » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:32 pm

LENA wrote::evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

This video might shock you! Its up to you if you want to watch it. I went up to the half of it!

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp ... speed=_med


OK , I saw only 5 seconds no more, but I imagine that tis will be the case if we give a unification solution in Cyprus problem. And the animals will be human beings
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Postby IcyNoAngel » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:32 pm

I've seen the whole movie a few years ago. I cannot understand how can someone do that. I'm a calm person but I admit, even if those are animals, I would shoot the mother***** that are doing smth like that.
The fur industry? ha... you need fur, you shoot the poor animal and get his fur... why do they have to punish them like that? That's sick :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby LENA » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:29 pm

I dont understand people who are against killing animals for their meat but keep eating meat or if they turn vegetarian they suffer from luck of vitamins (personal experience from a friend). I do not understand people who are against using rats for experiments for medicine but when they are sick they get all this pills and medicines which were tested on animals. I dont understand when they claim that scientist should stop using animals for their experiment but they do not give a solution that will be effective? What use humans? I never done any experiment with animal like British do while they are in school and I am very pleased for that but I know that are necessary. My family do not have people who go hunting but they do it for the meet they will get and not just to kill birds and rabbits.

But really i do not understand people who kill animals for their fur. And especially this way. They are alive for fuck sake. How they would feel if they do that to them? Like Zan I watched up to the point that the poor animal was dieing from pain bleeding. If they are able to do that to those animals they can do that to humans as well.

Zan I am sorry the video you posted was made with technology and was just a fake ghost not somebody who took the skin from creature that is alive and can feel the pain.

Epsilon, this is not a political debate my dear! :evil:
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:49 am

What is fur? It is leather with the hair left on it rather than taken off at the tannery. So let us all keep using our brains about this! A sheepsking coat with the fur left on is called a shearling coat and is considered fur. and therefore bad. A leather coat made from sheep without the fur on is a plain leather coat and not morally damnable. This is bullshit!

In the fur industry animals are not stressed before being killed because that dulls the fur. If any of you have been to a mink far you will know this is true, the atmosphere is quiet, almost serene. The animals are killed silently and quickly to preserve fur quality. These are the facts. If you dont like the idea of animals being rasied for their fur that is fine.

Resorting to paying people to torture an animal so that you can use the film to shock impressionable and sensitive people, like most people on this forum, now that is a major immoral act. Peta is immoral and unethical for using this film. It could have condemned the fur industry without this disgusting piece of propaganda.
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Postby LENA » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:56 am

Nikitas wrote:What is fur? It is leather with the hair left on it rather than taken off at the tannery. So let us all keep using our brains about this! A sheepsking coat with the fur left on is called a shearling coat and is considered fur. and therefore bad. A leather coat made from sheep without the fur on is a plain leather coat and not morally damnable. This is bullshit!

In the fur industry animals are not stressed before being killed because that dulls the fur. If any of you have been to a mink far you will know this is true, the atmosphere is quiet, almost serene. The animals are killed silently and quickly to preserve fur quality. These are the facts. If you dont like the idea of animals being rasied for their fur that is fine.

Resorting to paying people to torture an animal so that you can use the film to shock impressionable and sensitive people, like most people on this forum, now that is a major immoral act. Peta is immoral and unethical for using this film. It could have condemned the fur industry without this disgusting piece of propaganda.


Let me get that right. You know so well about this things...why? Are you involve in this procedure? Why is so right for you to take the skin of those animals while they are alive in a QUITE ENVIRONMENT, ALMOST SERENE? Dis they told you that is the noise that bother those animals or the pain while they are taking their skin off?
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Postby Nikitas » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:05 am

Lena please read what I wrote again carefully. The animals are killed quickly and painlessly because that is necessary to maintain fur quality. Stress ruins the skin oils and dulls the fur. THis does not excuse the fur indistry if you are set against it, but it is a fact.

How do I know so much about it? Because as a professional reporter I have been involved in many reports on the fur industry, the plight of fur workers in the towns of Kastoria and Siatista in Greece as the demand dropped, the ecological antifur campaign and the tricks used by the animal rights movement to sway public opinion. Like the lie that animals are killed in the atrocious manner shown in the film to get fur. THis is nonsense for the simple reason that doing it this way lowers profits. Fur traders are in it for the profit. They values speed and efficiency.

If you want reliable info on this read David Henshaw's book Animal Warfare. He is a BBC reporter who has done first hand research into the animal rights movement and their methods.
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Postby LENA » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:21 am

Nikitas wrote:Lena please read what I wrote again carefully. The animals are killed quickly and painlessly because that is necessary to maintain fur quality. Stress ruins the skin oils and dulls the fur. THis does not excuse the fur indistry if you are set against it, but it is a fact.

How do I know so much about it? Because as a professional reporter I have been involved in many reports on the fur industry, the plight of fur workers in the towns of Kastoria and Siatista in Greece as the demand dropped, the ecological antifur campaign and the tricks used by the animal rights movement to sway public opinion. Like the lie that animals are killed in the atrocious manner shown in the film to get fur. THis is nonsense for the simple reason that doing it this way lowers profits. Fur traders are in it for the profit. They values speed and efficiency.

If you want reliable info on this read David Henshaw's book Animal Warfare. He is a BBC reporter who has done first hand research into the animal rights movement and their methods.


I will try to stay cam here. Of course i read your post really careful. You told me that they take their skin while they are alive, they try not to stress the animal before they torture it, they are not talking they enjoy the moment and all this just for the quality of the fur. So its ok with you to do all that if they are going to get a nice quality fur!

I do not want to read any book that will give me all the details of this cruelty i have seen enough. If you say that this video is not the real way that they take the fur from the animals why you said that they do it fast... it was fast...why you say they try not to stress them...you mean they are alive...is what the video shown to all of us....if they kill them fast there is no stress but they do it while they are alive in a serene environment. You must be kidding me!
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