Cyprus-Forum.com

[devil]

I don't usually contribute to this board, but exceptions prove the rule.

I've given long thought to THE problem and have firm views on how it may be resolved to the satisfaction of both sides, but they are irrelevant to this post. In any case, they would not be acceptable at a political level, although I'm sure they would be by the people of both sides.

I have thought about partition and sought some examples from past and recent history.

A bad example of partitioning occurred in the early 1920s when Ireland was divided into the Irish Free State (later Eire). All this did was create a tinder-box of strife that lasts today (and will certainly blow up again within a few years).

The most populous one is, of course, India and Pakistan (part of which later became Bangladesh). This happened 60 years ago. Result: 60 years of bickering, strife, sabre-rattling and armed conflict.

A year later came the creation of Israel, partitioned out of Palestine. I hardly need to say that this has not been very successful, do I?

More recently, the USSR was partitioned into Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, some of the -stans, Baltic States etc. Relations between them have not been exactly harmonious, have they?

Then the partitioning of Yugoslavia has been and still is a catastrophe that needs no further explanation.

Here, in Cyprus, we have had a de facto partition since 1974. Fortunately, over recent years, this has been physically peaceful but politically an unending battleground with neither side yielding an iota. Let's imagine what would happen if the island became officially partitioned into two independent states. Would the political situation improve? Of course not. The UNFICYP would disappear and the battles over the land within the Green Line would become physical. If a frontier could be established, security on both sides would demand armed patrols and skirmishes would happen. I would not rule out the possibility of terrorism developing between the two countries; there are enough hot-heads who would be willing to resort to violence to claim their pretended rights. Experience elsewhere has shown that partitioning has never been nor ever will be a solution towards peace.

My suggestion is therefore one of ΕΝΟΣΙΣ but not a union with Greece but a union of GCs and TCs. Is this possible? Yes, I believe it is, but not under either the Annan Plan or anything yet proposed. It would require a totally revised Constitution and a helluva lot of goodwill and determination on the part of the citizens. Of course, some individuals, on both sides, will feel aggrieved over pretended losses but half a cake is better than no cake. But all would be winners because such a new ΕΝΟΣΙΣ would bring much more prosperity and stability to the island. I'm convinced it can be done.

ΕΝΟΣΙΣ is the answer: partition is not, or ever will be, the answer.

[Sega]

Your completely right! Dividing the place will only fuel hatred between the communities. The communities have already started uniting, it's only a matter of time. I have met TC who attend Greek language classes (in Southern Cyprus) and I have also met GC who attend Turkish language classes. It's only a matter of time before the people will unite.

[phoenix]

Great idea devil!

Exactly what Cyprus needs!
You are absolutely correct in predicting continued cross-border problems if partition where established.
Cyprus has to be re-unified . . . it's just common sense. The only problem is that as with all invaders, the Turks do not want to give up what they have conquered . . .

SO, HOW DO WE MAKE THE TURKS SEE REASON?

That's our stumbling block!

Anyway, all sounds great apart from bringing up the ENOSIS word . . . it is akin to Germany saying it is going for restructuring improvements, and without recourse to the past, it will call the process "The Fourth Reich" . . . . not very P.C.

[Tim Drayton]

I can suggest an interesting exercise. Take an atlas of the world and try to find an island that is divided into two sovereign states. The only example I can find is Hispaniola in the West Indies which is divided into Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haiti has a population of around 6 million and a land area of about 28 000 square kilometers. The corresponding figures for the Dominican Republic are roughly 9 million and 48 000 square kilometers. In other words, both of these sovereign states are much larger than Cyprus, which has a land area of less than 10 000 square kilometers.
There is no example anywhere in the world of an island the size of Cyprus being divided into two states. At least, I can't find one. It simply isn't viable. In the long terms you can have either a single state, or double enosis. The north of the island has already moved very far in that direction. The only TC partitionists I can take seriously are those who argue for full annexation to Turkey. Another interesting exercise. Take an atlas of the world and find a small peice of island territory some distance from the mainland to which it belongs which is not a forgotten, neglected backwater. Can you find an example?

[Get Real!]

My suggestion is therefore one of ΕΝΟΣΙΣ but not a union with Greece but a union of GCs and TCs. Is this possible?

That essentially IS assimilation, and especially when you consider the small number of Turkish Cypriots.

What's good for Turkish Cypriots is to assimilate themselves under a modern and democratic Cyprus but their leadership and that of Turkey don't necessarily want what is good for the TC people but what is good for themselves... ie: power!

[Viewpoint]

Everyone has forgotten that we are divided both politically and economically, we both function separately for 33 years.. all that has to be done is to agree this formally, so I do not buy into the idea that partition will not work. The only eal problem is land and agreeing a solution there, if that were possible we could make a clean break and end this forever, even Belgium is starting to crack and will probably partition just like the examples you have put forward, isnt this what GCs campaign for when sympathising with Kurds.

[Pyrpolizer]

The question is is the current de facto partition really working for you? Don't you have huge problems already? Do you think you will have less problems if your area will be limited to your fair share of 18%?

Imo you should multiply your present problems by a factor of 4 in case of official partition.

Expected answer: Thank you for your concern but that's none of your bussiness!!

[devil]

The only problem is that as with all invaders, the Turks do not want to give up what they have conquered . . .

SO, HOW DO WE MAKE THE TURKS SEE REASON?

That's our stumbling block!

There is a far greater stumbling block: the mindset of a vociferous minority of Cypriots, on both sides, at all levels of society. Many can see no farther than the tip of their noses and have no idea of what is best for the greater good.

Quite frankly, I think Turkey is fed up to the back teeth with Cyprus but dares not lose face by a retreat a) because it would lose a bargaining position and b) it needs to protect the Anatolian immigrants from the pretended ire of GCs. I feel reasonably sure that if a really viable plan were presented, Turkey would be glad to rid itself of the enormous expense of maintaining the soi-disant TRNC. Such a plan would be possible but not as long as we talk about a bi-zonal bi-communal federation, which is not even a half-way house towards a reunion. IMHO, this is not the solution for a new union between GCs and TCs. There are other ways which would be more acceptable to both peoples.

[Piratis]

For once more you are confusing irrelevant things.

All the examples Devil and VP gave are the ones where people have naturally and legally became the great majority of a certain area for 100s if not 1000s of years and at some point they decided that they wanted their area to be independent.

In the case of TCs this is not the case. The northern part of Cyprus is not their area. The now occupied part of Cyprus belongs to GCs 5+ times more than it belongs to TCs. So if we had to split ownership of Cyprus among the ethnic groups, like it happened in the examples you mentioned, then GCs would get almost the whole Cyprus, while TCs would get some villages where they have been the majority.

The Cyprus problem is a clear case of invasion and occupation of one country by another. It would be equivalent of Iran invading England and taking 1/3rd of it and claiming the Muslim minority there as an excuse.

The only eal problem is land and agreeing a solution there

And be sure the "solution" can not be us gifting to you our land. If you want to be separate, you can have it only over land that you own legally. You can not create a state over our land.

In any case, they would not be acceptable at a political level, although I'm sure they would be by the people of both sides

Tell us then! Here we are not politicians and yet we have never agreed. Do you have the magic answer devil? Because the way I see it the TCs will accept nothing short of officially Turkifying the north part of our country.

[devil]

Take an atlas of the world and find a small peice of island territory some distance from the mainland to which it belongs which is not a forgotten, neglected backwater. Can you find an example?

Plenty: Jersey/Guernsey, Guadeloupe, Corsica, Okinawa, Gibraltar (not really an island, but practically so), Vancouver Is., Newfoundland, Penang, Kalimantan, Tasmania, Hawaii, Tierra del Fuego (incidentally another partitioned island!), Bute, Zealand/Funen (actually richer than the mainland), etc. Didn't even need to open an atlas, these names came from the top of my head.