Cyprus-Forum.com

[Eliko]

Plenty: Jersey/Guernsey, Guadeloupe, Corsica, Okinawa, Gibraltar (not really an island, but practically so), Vancouver Is., Newfoundland, Penang, Kalimantan, Tasmania, Hawaii, Tierra del Fuego (incidentally another partitioned island!), Bute, Zealand/Funen (actually richer than the mainland), etc. Didn't even need to open an atlas, these names came from the top of my head.

devil, if what you say above is true, 'Congratulations' that's some head mate.

[Get Real!]

Get Real,

Getting hold of weapons that can provide a deterrent force able to return a blow of equal devastation as one received might involve more effort and expense than Cypriot society is prepared to accept. Once you go above the ownership of tanks and start getting into technically advanced gear like ships, planes and missiles, things get expensive and technolgically demanding. Are you sure Cyprus has that capacity and political will?

Cyprus doesn't need more tanks or any other vehicles for that matter but an investment in short and mid-range missiles to place Istanbul and other Turkish cities under direct threat. Missile technology is NOT expensive at all and with the current 22+billion p/a she makes she is quite capable of establishing and maintaining a decent missile program. Or has she already?

Not realistic. Remember the S-300s?

The S300 are surface to air defense batteries not surface to surface missiles which is what I was talking about. But anyway, the S300 are flops compared with the French Mistral the National Guard has acquired recently from France for dealing with the Turkish air-force.

http://www.army.gov.cy/index.php?id=23

The problem with the S300 debacle was advertising it but the RoC has since learned a valuable lesson and the current acquisition of a superior surface to air system (actually the world's best) is evidence of that.

Regards, GR.

[Pyrpolizer]

The MISTRAL missiles have a range of only 4Km. It is true that once they are guided correctly there is no escape for the jet as they travel so fast the pilot has no time to react. That's why the MISTRALS were called the Killers of jets.
HOWEVER, the Mistral missile is guided manually. The same way the pilot has no time to react, the Mistral operator has only a second to guide the missile correctly.
The biggest disandantage of the Mistral is, it cannot fire in the direction of the sun. This is a huge problem since obviously all enemy planes are going to attack in the direction of the sun and get a high altitude after they do, so they are not caught by another Mistral waiting them 4Km down the road.

[oranos64]

I don't usually contribute to this board, but exceptions prove the rule.

I've given long thought to THE problem and have firm views on how it may be resolved to the satisfaction of both sides, but they are irrelevant to this post. In any case, they would not be acceptable at a political level, although I'm sure they would be by the people of both sides.

I have thought about partition and sought some examples from past and recent history.

A bad example of partitioning occurred in the early 1920s when Ireland was divided into the Irish Free State (later Eire). All this did was create a tinder-box of strife that lasts today (and will certainly blow up again within a few years).

The most populous one is, of course, India and Pakistan (part of which later became Bangladesh). This happened 60 years ago. Result: 60 years of bickering, strife, sabre-rattling and armed conflict.

A year later came the creation of Israel, partitioned out of Palestine. I hardly need to say that this has not been very successful, do I?

More recently, the USSR was partitioned into Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, some of the -stans, Baltic States etc. Relations between them have not been exactly harmonious, have they?

Then the partitioning of Yugoslavia has been and still is a catastrophe that needs no further explanation.

Here, in Cyprus, we have had a de facto partition since 1974. Fortunately, over recent years, this has been physically peaceful but politically an unending battleground with neither side yielding an iota. Let's imagine what would happen if the island became officially partitioned into two independent states. Would the political situation improve? Of course not. The UNFICYP would disappear and the battles over the land within the Green Line would become physical. If a frontier could be established, security on both sides would demand armed patrols and skirmishes would happen. I would not rule out the possibility of terrorism developing between the two countries; there are enough hot-heads who would be willing to resort to violence to claim their pretended rights. Experience elsewhere has shown that partitioning has never been nor ever will be a solution towards peace.

My suggestion is therefore one of ΕΝΟΣΙΣ but not a union with Greece but a union of GCs and TCs. Is this possible? Yes, I believe it is, but not under either the Annan Plan or anything yet proposed. It would require a totally revised Constitution and a helluva lot of goodwill and determination on the part of the citizens. Of course, some individuals, on both sides, will feel aggrieved over pretended losses but half a cake is better than no cake. But all would be winners because such a new ΕΝΟΣΙΣ would bring much more prosperity and stability to the island. I'm convinced it can be done.

ΕΝΟΣΙΣ is the answer: partition is not, or ever will be, the answer.

D

MATE ,no the U.N will never leave cyprus ,neither will the MOD SBA ...

Even if the two entities would carry on as they do on separate paths ,U.N will always maintain a force here ...the force being mainly police units ..as they do now ....

The best solution is partition ..becaue neither side will ever compromise ....neither side here agrees to any solution ,hence Britain has began giving the TRNC via Turkey aid and acceptance ,much like the U.S is ...THEY ARE GIVING UP ,,there will never be peace nor acceptance ..just independene progress

note ...is it not to their advantage anyway that we stay the same ?....

So LIKE MATSAKIS said and i have echoed here ...THE U.N think tanks and various independent bodies .... it is time to accept this way as the only way ..

in return they will give us ...

1. $$ huge amount fo money to all greedy land sellers /innocent who lost homes and want compensation ..
2.$$$$$ huge investment by companies ,E.U ,U.N and other bodies into the infrastructure in cyprus ...to make the island more attractive ....something like 20 million was paid to a U.S company dealing in logistics ...to open a office here rather than dubai ....(one of the directors is a client of mine)
3. further aid to companies and restructing of various goverment bodies creates security to 1000s of Jobs on both sides of the border .
4.areas like famagusta will be shared with some aid ....

in due course ,this will become apparent and obivious and will be the only option to gurantee our economic future ...

cheers all

[Get Real!]

The MISTRAL missiles have a range of only 4Km. It is true that once they are guided correctly there is no escape for the jet as they travel so fast the pilot has no time to react. That's why the MISTRALS were called the Killers of jets.
HOWEVER, the Mistral missile is guided manually. The same way the pilot has no time to react, the Mistral operator has only a second to guide the missile correctly.
The biggest disandantage of the Mistral is, it cannot fire in the direction of the sun. This is a huge problem since obviously all enemy planes are going to attack in the direction of the sun and get a high altitude after they do, so they are not caught by another Mistral waiting them 4Km down the road.

They can actually be used in stand-alone (manual) or coordinated (automated) mode via the “MISTRAL COORDINATION POST” (MCP)


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mistral/

I'm pleased to inform that the National Guard does have MCPs in its possession.

[Nikitas]

Devil,

The S300 affair can be seen two ways, as the most embarassing moment in the history of the RoC or the most brilliant military move made by the Greek side since the 50s. Take a compass and draw a 300km circle around Paphos. Now also draw a 300 km circle around eastern Crete. See the difference! And the missiles were place there under Turkish pressure and with NATO and US blessings! Amazing!

No wonder that since their placement in Crete the Turkish air force has gone totally crazy with exercises in the area between Crete and Cyprus. That is where we had a mid air collision between jet fighters not so long ago.

[Pyrpolizer]

@GR,

Nevertheless the MISTRAL is an amazing weapon, with a proven success hit of 95%!! Have you seen one? I examined a couple of them in the past..

[oranos64]

The MISTRAL missiles have a range of only 4Km. It is true that once they are guided correctly there is no escape for the jet as they travel so fast the pilot has no time to react. That's why the MISTRALS were called the Killers of jets.
HOWEVER, the Mistral missile is guided manually. The same way the pilot has no time to react, the Mistral operator has only a second to guide the missile correctly.
The biggest disandantage of the Mistral is, it cannot fire in the direction of the sun. This is a huge problem since obviously all enemy planes are going to attack in the direction of the sun and get a high altitude after they do, so they are not caught by another Mistral waiting them 4Km down the road.

They can actually be used in stand-alone (manual) or coordinated (automated) mode via the “MISTRAL COORDINATION POST” (MCP)


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mistral/

I'm pleased to inform that the National Guard does have MCPs in its possession.

wow great ...can they be deployed and used by the average soldier ? a techie or an officer ? hope so ...well actually not ...they require lots of training ..what if the unit is killed in action ...how many men know how to use this ....the french nato advisors asked for 300 by 2010 ...

GR ..you live in a world of warcraft like ..you have fatih in the national guard ..but they are incompetent and they mis understand war games ....NIKI FORUS rtc is a joke ....

by the time these units are deployed ,,,the turkish F16S on the islands and from the mobile plaforms will bomb us into disarry ..the TRNC ARMY has every base and unit mapped ..even google earth can do that for them .no secrets stores ...the Turks need only deploy 9 F16S ...and deploy 8 apaches and the job to cause disarry would cause wide spread panic .... they would be enough to harm our green line deployment ..

our advantage would be our long range cannons and mobile spear units (tanks and battery units )

also the missles reffered to in this thread are in Greek hands ,NATO will not allow them to be used ...never

The turks are constantly training for parachute deployment in under 45 minutes ...that means the F16S WOULD proceed them to attract our ground to air units whilst Turkish troops would parachute into larnaca (the tekke would be a base station for troop movement ...(airport being the target and then the military depits near by ..arms storage ) the other key target for them would be to deploy into the dhali area and cut the highway route out of nicosia ..preventing supplies in and out ...and then leapfrogging our troops in the process .... (ever thought ,how comes the TRNC was given that little church outpost on top of dahli over looking our motorways and with clear views of our highways and routes in ...thats beacuse they requested in 74/75 during the green line meetings to keep them happy the U.N agreed )our units - specialised units are good at officer level ....but our infrantry is a joke ...and needs real training .

i see the results of training in nikifous are in ....most targets were not achieved so my spy yef tell me ..then again .i hear all is not well int he TRNC army camps too ...so my trnc spies tell me ...

all in all ...as one military commander put it recently ...the national guard would be nothing more than a scartch and run cell in under 100hours of combat ....

cyprus needs helicopters ,french combat copters are good and better designed than the U.S apache which has a record of issues ,deployment by hind d helicopters of which we have 2 for the lok is a joke ..heck they should be 20 at least (1 million each with 2 million for weapons a snipe)...and then some ,plus invite over the speznaz to train our troops not the helenic troop units only ..they are based on the U.S systems ,.our units are designed and deployed more like the speznaz and varka groups ...its time to change

im all for a professional army ...and 6 months or a year ,hard physical training for all E.U members states

on the 15-19 i am going for a NG inspection ...can wait ...

till then stop priasing these idiots if you want to learn combatives and serve your country alongside real officers contact me ....

the coach

[CopperLine]

Question 1 : When is an arms race won ?
Question 2 : When does the race end ?


Lesson 1 : Never enter an arms race unless you're guaranteed to win.
Lesson 2 : In arms races there are no guarantees.


Solution 1 : Buy a missile.
Solution 2 : Buy an anti-missile
Solution 3 : Buy an anti-missile-missile
Solution 4 : Buy an anti-missile-missile-missile
.........
........

[oranos64]

Question 1 : When is an arms race won ?
Question 2 : When does the race end ?


Lesson 1 : Never enter an arms race unless you're guaranteed to win.
Lesson 2 : In arms races there are no guarantees.


Solution 1 : Buy a missile.
Solution 2 : Buy an anti-missile
Solution 3 : Buy an anti-missile-missile
Solution 4 : Buy an anti-missile-missile-missile
.........
........

"Si vis pacem, Para bellum".

If you wish to have peace, you should be prepared for war.

show me a nation that has not complied with this and ill show dozens who have suffered..

this alone should ring in your head ..it is not war but peace we desire but to maintain it we do not drop our pants we stand up and defend ourselves and our right to defend ourselves from invaders