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Well, What Do You Know.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Well, What Do You Know.

Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:25 am

kafenes wrote:‘Leader’s secret meetings to sabotage 2004 referendum’
By Jean Christou

SECRET meetings between the two sides ahead of the 2004 referendums on the Annan plan resulted in an agreement that a ‘yes’ and a ‘no’ should come out of the dual votes, reports from the north said yesterday.

Afrika newspaper said that before the referendum, then ‘Deputy Prime Minister’ Serdar Denktash and ‘Communication and Works Minister’ Omer Kalyoncu took part in the secret dinners at the Strakka home of President Tassos Papadopoulos.

Kalyoncu was the general secretary of Talat’s Republican Turkish Party.

“It was decided that a “yes” and a “no” come out of the ballot box at the referendum,” the report said.

Denktash, the son of the former Turkish Cypriot leader, told a radio station in the north that Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat was asked during the Burgenstock talks whether he wanted a solution or a referendum and he reportedly replied the latter.

Greek Cypriot presidential candidates have been mudslinging in the past week over who was responsible for what when it came to the Annan plan and referendum. Politis yesterday dubbed the story “The X Files”.

The Strakka dinners, and the extent of the participation of AKEL candidate and former government partner Demetris Christofias were central to the argument.

AKEL has been arguing that it merely wanted a postponement of the referendum so that certain gaps in the plan could be worked out and a ‘yes’ could be secured at a later date.
However Talat wanted the referendum to go ahead, and the government was also bound under an agreement with the UN that the referendum would be held.

Afrika said the only solution was a failed vote for the plan.

”Papadopoulos told Serdar Denktas that even if AKEL said ‘yes’ to the referendum, the result would be a ‘no’, and proposed the referendum to be postponed for two years,” the paper said.

Denktash also said he met with Papadopoulos five or six times in Burgenstock, where the president had also suggested a postponement so that negotiations could continue between the two sides, and after they reached an understanding they could prepare a joint plan to submit to the UN.

Denktash said he took the idea to Talat but, fearful that there were bugs in the Swiss hotel, discussed the issue out in the snow. Talat insisted the referendum should take place, Afrika said. This was also Turkey’s position, it said.

AKEL spokesman Andros Kyprianou said yesterday Christofias only attended one of the Strakka meetings, and had insisted on the presence of Kalyoncu as a representative of Talat.
Kyprianou said he knew nothing about other meetings.

“We asked for a postponement of the referenda and we did not act behind the backs of the Cypriot people,” he said.

He also said if Christofias was elected President he would put to referendum a solution agreed by the two sides.

Government spokesman Vassilis Palmas said two meetings had taken place in Papadopoulos’ house, one of which was attended by Christofias.

There has also been a number of meetings in Burgenstock, he said.

Palmas said he didn't know why Papadopoulos’ opponents were causing such a fuss, given that they were the ones that unanimously approved the law that made the referendum possible.

“This is something that is being ignored,” he said, adding that none of them made their objections known at the time.

Asked about Serdar factor, Palmas said: “Obviously someone is trying to identify the President with the same policies of Mr Denktash,” he said.

Palmas suggested it was time to stop taking things out of the drawer that related to the referendum period and to move forward with constructive arguments about the future.


http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=35676


it only makes me admire them more, these old farts. imagine...

...who do you think they were hiding from?

like the opening of the gates, Denktash ruled as a Cypriot first, TPap in this regard is an accomplice, and as a Turk he served his Patrimony, not the Government, which serves these ideals as well. The Annan plan which started with much hope was botched, and the fact that few had read it the day before the referendum proves that it was unclear.

as for the EOKA and what became their counterpart the TMT they are products of that age, what were guerillas. few can say with integrity that they improved the condition of Humanity with their work, they have for the most part spawned fascists, and the ignobles without grace, we have come to call terrorists.

For Tpap to establish a legacy of work as great, he must found our State on a BiCommunal and BiZonal basis.

This means three governments, (and many parts).

his next step should be to establish a link of familiarity with Talat or any other Turkish Cypriot leader he can, in secret, with a mind to divorce "Greek" from the State, the Republic of Cyprus, and to establish a counterpart to the TRNC, a new governmental system, which will allow for two National Assemblies as well, each recognising, and respecting minority rights, and each representing a majority by culture.
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Postby zan » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:30 am

Bravo repulsewarrior!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:15 am

Bananiot wrote:Denizaksulu, you have brought up memories! I remember back in 1958 (i think) when as a very young elementary school pupil I participated in a demonstration, holding a Greek flag I could hardly carry, shouting rhythmically e,e,e,enosis!

Of course the armed struggle was for enosis. The right had a pathological urge for enosis and the communist left was also all for enosis because at first they thought communism was inevitable in Greecer, and later, when the left succumbed to Makarios, enosis became a national inspiration until 1967 when finally and after many defeats, Makarios dropped the desirable and went for the feasible.

Pyrpolyser has given us a great lesson in absurdity. He admires EOKA, he says, because they failed to unite Cyprus with Greece (that was their only aim) but managed to win independence. As if the Brits were to hold onto Cyprus forever! Independence (with much better provisions) was achieved by 99% of British colonies at the time, without spending one bullet.

It is so naive to claim that Britain left Cyprus because of EOKA. In fact Britain has not left at all, because of EOKA. The deal we signed in 1959 mirrors the defeat of EOKA and what it stood for. Of course if we look for heroes in order to perk us up then we can look at those who died, for those that survived are of the likes of Yorgatzis, Sampson and a few other fascist individuals.

I have no problem to say and I have written this before, that enosis was not totally unwarranted for the Greek Cypriots. I think the Greek Cypriots had every right to aspire for enosis. It does not matter if some people were not for enosis. It is the tactics used to bring about enosis that were wrong. Top of the list is the armed struggle. It buried enosis (is this really why you support it Pyrpolyser?) and secondly but extremely important, it did not take into consideration the fears and insecurities (real or imaginary) of our TC compatriots. If our struggle was for independence, the TC's would have been asked to participate in it.


Thanks for the reply Bananiot.
The main reason I recalled this was the fact that a lot of TCs will remember these chants and always mistrust the GCs. The post script to all this was that I used to join in with the crowd, screaming at the British soldiers, and using the same chants. I was 7 at the time and no idea what I was shouting. It sounded nice.
Later after the tear-gas to disperse the crowd, we had to go home, which was wonderful.

Later on a member of my family heard me talking about these events and explained to me the meanings of all these. Now as I reflect, sometimes I smile and sometimes I am saddened.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:07 am

I don't understand why people keep talking about "the British leaving Cyprus"...Last time I looked there were two British bases operating as sovereign areas in the South...And the last time I looked the North was under Turkish (read American ) occupation....The British did not leave Cypus. They made sure Turkey and America came in as well...Cypriots have been divided and ruled...the division and foreign rule continues today...If Cypriots do not wise up and unite as one people one nation,foreign occupation and domination of our homeland will continue forever...Time to wake up and start another struggle for "Liberation"...This time for "true" liberation... :( :( :(
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Postby zan » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:12 am

Birkibrisli wrote:I don't understand why people keep talking about "the British leaving Cyprus"...Last time I looked there were two British bases operating as sovereign areas in the South...And the last time I looked the North was under Turkish (read American ) occupation....The British did not leave Cypus. They made sure Turkey and America came in as well...Cypriots have been divided and ruled...the division and foreign rule continues today...If Cypriots do not wise up and unite as one people one nation,foreign occupation and domination of our homeland will continue forever...Time to wake up and start another struggle for "Liberation"...This time for "true" liberation... :( :( :(


Liberate and hand the whole island over to Tpap and his cronies....No thanks.
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Postby Nikitas » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:50 am

Three governments! Two national assemblies! THree police forces! Wow! I am not commenting on the need or otherwise of such a system, but knowing our propensity (of ALL Cypriots) to nepotism and cronyism, can you all imagine how the appointments to these various bodies will be made! We are risking becoming a nation of idle civils servants and a heavily taxed population to feed all these drones.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:18 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:I don't understand why people keep talking about "the British leaving Cyprus"...Last time I looked there were two British bases operating as sovereign areas in the South...And the last time I looked the North was under Turkish (read American ) occupation....The British did not leave Cypus. They made sure Turkey and America came in as well...Cypriots have been divided and ruled...the division and foreign rule continues today...If Cypriots do not wise up and unite as one people one nation,foreign occupation and domination of our homeland will continue forever...Time to wake up and start another struggle for "Liberation"...This time for "true" liberation... :( :( :(



BK, watch it, some may think you are encouraging our own 'death warrant'. :lol:

....but you are right as long as there is no misunderstanding. :lol: :wink:

Selamlar
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Postby Bananiot » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:22 pm

Yesterday, three Greek Cypriot workers were injured in an explosion ata British Base on Troodos, we were informe by the media. Damn it, there more than two British Bases, it appears. Wake up Pyrpolyser, this the EOKA legacy. Cyprus is covered with British Bases and the two that you know are just the big ones.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:05 pm

Nikitas wrote:Three governments! Two national assemblies! THree police forces! Wow! I am not commenting on the need or otherwise of such a system, but knowing our propensity (of ALL Cypriots) to nepotism and cronyism, can you all imagine how the appointments to these various bodies will be made! We are risking becoming a nation of idle civils servants and a heavily taxed population to feed all these drones.


much prefer this (three) to:

one, which would lead to the kind of autocratic behaviour cronyism etc. we have now.

two, because they would be mutually exclusive in acts, (refer to one, above), and having an almost non existent communal chamber between them, imagine how fat the cronies get when dividing and ruling is instutionalised.

indeed, in my Cyprus, it's citizens will be very close to their tax dollar, and the three reps you'd sent to the Republics legislature, you would have voted for, exactly like any neighbour, from three slates: one turcophone, one grecophone (for an upper house of equal seating where parties win the leadership by a majority of seats), and one independant (in a lower house, members sitting on government committees, with a speaker, voting by consensus).

as well, you would vote for a representative in one of the National Assemblies, and in municipal elections, also depending on where you live.

Why not have three division of a police force, who would investigate the other, if there is one only? ..., doubtful the two can work together as one.

Furthermore to be accomadating to global partners, and to be a people which are inclusive, as grecophones and/or turcophones, we must end the exclusivity of mono clonal immigration, prepared in a manner which can sustain us as distinct cultural identities, that as citizens we prosper in our own language first, but able, with the desire, in other languages as well.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:25 am

zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:I don't understand why people keep talking about "the British leaving Cyprus"...Last time I looked there were two British bases operating as sovereign areas in the South...And the last time I looked the North was under Turkish (read American ) occupation....The British did not leave Cypus. They made sure Turkey and America came in as well...Cypriots have been divided and ruled...the division and foreign rule continues today...If Cypriots do not wise up and unite as one people one nation,foreign occupation and domination of our homeland will continue forever...Time to wake up and start another struggle for "Liberation"...This time for "true" liberation... :( :( :(


Liberate and hand the whole island over to Tpap and his cronies....No thanks.


Liberate and hand the whole island to her people,the Cypriots,to run as a True Democracy where human rights and rule of law reins supreme...Tpap and his cronies will be history withing 10 years...Cypriots will be here forever,albeit without most of the TCs... :cry:
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