Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikephoros]

The official ideology of the Turkish state can be said to be Kemalism. Kemalism is a fascist ideology. When you argue with Turks on the internet you are arguing mostly with a nation of fascists, except the few dissidents in Turkey, the minority who reject Kemalism.

The following will show how the fascist official ideology is maintained in Turkey:

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http://www.book-fair.com/en/index.php?c ... ntent.html
"Banned Books 2000–2005: 284
The ban has been abolished for 47 titles..
Source: Turkish Publishers’ Association Freedom of Publishing Report (June 2006)"
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http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_arti ... Valider=OK
"At least 65 people, including many journalists and writers, have been prosecuted under article 301 of the new criminal code introduced on 1 June 2005. The article, headed “Denigration of Turkishness, the republic and state organs and institutions,” provides for between six months and three years in prison for “anyone who openly denigrates the government, judicial institutions or military or police structures.”"
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http://www.bianet.org/2006/11/01_eng/news92579.htm

"These practices are simply pristine and totally unlawful, says Kıvanç Eliaçık from the new Students' Union Initiative, commenting on the increasing number of administrative inquisitions towards dissident students at universities around the country. ...

"Protestation without permission", "chanting slogans", "participating in press conference" are grounds according to the university rectorate for disciplinary action.

In the last four months 72 inquisitions had been placed and seven students who reacted against the yearly tuition had been punished."
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http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/EN ... of=ENG-2U5
3. In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
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http://www.historynewsnetwork.com/round ... /8986.html
It didn't even occur to me that I would be abandoned by Sabanci University when I spoke out," Prof Berktay says. "In most Turkish state universities there is a stiff, straitjacketed, hierarchical approach to saying something perceived as being against the national interest, whatever that is, and in that framework it is virtually unthinkable to go against the conventional wisdom."
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http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detay ... ink=105623
The TSK was left in a difficult situation after a scandal caused by a weekly magazine’s publication of a file believed to have been prepared by the “Communication Department” of the General Staff. This file divided newspapers and journalists into two poles -- anti-militarist and pro-militarist -- and classified them as such. Some journalists were accused of being against the military getting involved in politics.
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[phoenix]

It looks to me like the "Insulting Turkishness" law, is akin to a type of highly audacious Fatwa. The Fatwa being issued for (e.g.) insulting the Koran.

So the Turks decree "Turkishness" as being of such high esteem or importance, that it ranks with the Koran, and if insulted or denigrated then the person is sentenced to a punishment (prison).

This is fascism to such an extreme, that Turkey is radically fundamentalist, but with itself as the "religion".

Are the people of the pseudo "TRNC" subject to this intolerance towards expressing a derogatory comment on Turkey?

It might explain why some of them sound like they are fearfully supporting the presence of Turkey in Cyprus against common sense.

They are afraid to speak up and tell them to get lost because they were wrong to invade . . . the TCs would be seen as insulting Turkishness.

We should do something about this!

[Nikephoros]

Phoenix, I am shocked that you seem to try to analyze Turks in the terms of Islamic civilization instead of the stupid leftist assumptions and wishful thinking of the Neocypriot left. I do not think it is productive to make such anaylsis. Everyone knows the problem is fanatics on both sides-- EOKA-B and TMT. Cypriots are meant to live to together. Anaylzing Kemalist or Islamic underpinnings of Turkish Cypriot society will only lead to more hate to be used for partition, because the only conclusion such anaylsis can lead to is that most of the Turkish population(including Turkish Cypriots) are fascist and Islamic. And who wants to live side by side with such a people?

[phoenix]

Hold your horses Nikephoros. You post a thread entitled "Most Turks are fascists" . . . and you accuse me of concluding most Turks are fascists.

Phoenix, I am shocked that you seem to try to analyze Turks in the terms of Islamic civilization instead of the stupid leftist assumptions and wishful thinking of the Neocypriot left.

Are you telling me I should analyse using stupid leftist assumptions

I compared the fatwa as akin to anti Turkishness persecutions. It was an exercise in comparative analysis.

And is Turkey not an Islamic country any more?

I do not think it is productive to make such anaylsis. Everyone knows the problem is fanatics on both sides-- EOKA-B and TMT.

How do EOKA-B and TMT figure in all this?

Cypriots are meant to live to together.

I know that . . . where have I said otherwise?

Anaylzing Kemalist or Islamic underpinnings of Turkish Cypriot society will only lead to more hate to be used for partition,

Not underpinnings Nikephoros, but the TCs are subject to Turkey and I was wondering if that means they are under strict adherence to the anti-Turkishness Law too.
Curiosity Nikephoros thats all!

I would have liked an answer to that.

because the only conclusion such anaylsis can lead to is that most of the Turkish population(including Turkish Cypriots) are fascist and Islamic. And who wants to live side by side with such a people?

Well they are Islamists . . . you may just have to accept that as given.

As for fascists . . . make your bloody mind up . . . are they or not?

[shahmaran]

If Kemalism was the majority in Turkey as you claim (and i wish it was), then AKP would have never made it to the top, i think you are full of shit to be honest...

Instead it was a huge victory, you prefere Muslim Fundamentalists to Kemalism? You have no clue i would say.

[Nikitas]

There is something eery in the adoration of Mustafa Kemal. All nations have their great men and women, but there is none of the obsession with a figure like there is with Kemal in Turkey, the ever present photographs and busts, the mausoleum, the compelling need to pay homage to the man, it is all reminiscent of totalitarian systems.

It is as if someone is there to remind Turks of a danger of losing their identity. Hence the touchy attitude about insulting Turkishness etc. But, Turkish Cypriots did not live under Kemalist Turkey and they are probably more Turkish than the mainlanders with a culture that they kept despite being apart from Turkey. So Kemalism today is more likely a tool for those that want to justify what they do to their fellow citizens.

[Nikephoros]

shahmaran: Kemalism, is the offiical state ideology of Turkey and its name. AKP is elected but still on the government buildings, town square, the eternal father, Mustafa Kemal is the symbol of the metaphysical Turkish state concept not anyone else is depicted everywhere like Kemal. So yes Kemalism is still the official ideology and your stupid comparison just shows how inept Turks are to even anaylze their own country. Give me some links to official Turkish government Departments and Services that do not have Kemal's picture on the front page of the website? This is not hard to do if you as you say AKP made it to the top, meaning as you imply that Kemalism is not the official ideology any longer. I do not expect many such links from you because informally every damn Turkish government site has the picture of Mustafa Kemal on the damn homepage.

See:

"Gokalp gave "the nation" an important mystical component. In his work, "he transferred to the nation the divine qualities he had found in society, replacing the belief in God with the belief in the nation: and so nationalism became a religion."[43] The national is deified, thus expanding Durkheim's idea that "society can do as it pleases." So, if a nation perceives iteself in danger, it feels no moral responsibility in its response to that danger. The Unionist "scientific approach" gained a "sacred" character through Gokalp's theories."

[43.] Heyd, Uriel. Foundations of Turkish Nationalism: The Life andTeachings of Ziya Gökalp., p. 57.

The official Turkish ideology is called Kemalism today and it is what national architects like Gokalp envisaged in the above quote. The nation is deified and criticizing the nation is like phoenix observed, it is punished like criticizing Islam under the Islamic era of the Ottoman Empire, when Islamic fetvas were issued.

phoenix: My first post replying to you was largely a satire of the Neocypriot idiots on the Greek Cypriot left(but most of course deny being Greek) who overpopulate this forum with their lack of anaylsis, historical understanding. I do not hold most of those views, but I know most Turks are fascist, I have dealt with them enough on forums and read some of the thoughts of their nationalist architects and monitored how the censorship to maintain the Kemalist fascist ideology. You cannot understand why Turks behave the way they do today until you read some Gokalp, Akcura, how they restrict free speech and accept it as inseperable aspects of Kemalism.

[Get Real!]

If Kemalism was the majority in Turkey as you claim (and i wish it was), then AKP would have never made it to the top,

I’m impressed Shami! You must’ve been serious when you said you were going to start doing some reading!

[Get Real!]

My first post replying to you was largely a satire of the Neocypriot idiots on the Greek Cypriot left(but most of course deny being Greek) who overpopulate this forum with their lack of anaylsis, historical understanding.

To say that Cypriots are “Greek” and stop at that implies that not a single Cypriot bloodline survived from the ancient past for reasons unknown; there is certainly no historical evidence to support anything like that, and that today’s Cypriot population stems from the 1500BC arrival of Mycenaeans and nowhere else!

Please explain your claim.

[Nikephoros]

Shut up Neocrypiot idiot. I have no time for incompetent leftist self hating cockroaches who invent nations for themselves to belong to.