Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

Well Shah, considering the damage done (30 000 dead as reported in the media) there would seem to be a greater case for separating the Kurds from the Turks, for the sake of peace and tranquility etc. than separating other places and people.

True, but have you actually seen the size of the proposed "Kurdistan"? Its ridiculous, its actually bigger than Turkey itself, they will have to do a LOT more killing to succeed, its never going to happen unless they start being reasonable...

Plus lets not forget that the PKK does not represent all the Kurdish people, if that was the case then we should also assume TMT and EOKA-B was supported by everyone and that partition here should also be considered for peace and tranquility, am i wrong?

[Nikephoros]

Interesting site, i presume all these were Kurdish reporters who probably got persecuted for glorifying terrorists or supporting the partition of Turkey, it is not surprising, i have not heard the name of not even 1 of these newspapers.

You can already go to jail for talking about the non-existence of a non-existing genocide in France which the world has still not up their minds about the truth behind it!

I will divide your statements into two.

1) You brush off the 23 journalists who spent the recent Bayram in jail because: "Oh, they were probably pro-Kurdish." which to Turks is tantamount to terrorism.
2) You go on about France, because the Kemalist fascists cannot deny the Armenian genocide there without worrying about a possible court case like Bernard Lewis faced.

This type of thinking typifies the monstorous society cultivated by Kemalism. You do not care in that the Turkish Republic sent 23 journalists in jail recently but you would have us pretend to you care about "freedom of speech" in France. Get lost loser Turk and stop wasting our time with your idiocies and fascism.

[shahmaran]

You are the hypocrite here my friend, when it comes to Turks and Turkey, but for some reason you fail to see it, you have been blinded by either Alzheimer's or utter idiocy!

1 country alone cannot suddenly "decide" that after refusing it 2 times previously, its time to accept that a "genocide" has happened without no proper investigation! Everyone knows why they did it and if you cant see the political interests behind it then i suggest you wipe the shit out of your eyes! Im sure you are old enough to know better, or maybe a little too old

On the other hand, people cannot go around glorifying a terrorist organization that has been accepted as such by the whole world and not expect to go to prison while they are constantly killing people on the east!

Do you care at all about the Turks that recently died? Do you condemn these killings or not?

So basically according to you, French can jail people for denying a supposed "genocide" that happened ages ago, which no one is sure of, but Turkey cannot jail people for glorifying the murderers of today!

Your logic is beyond rationality yet you have the audacity to call me a fascist loser with your half lame argument, racist asshole, your kind should be locked up along with your PKK buddies!

And we are supposed to unite with people like you on this island? We must be totally crazy!

[denizaksulu]

You are the hypocrite here my friend, when it comes to Turks and Turkey, but for some reason you fail to see it, you have been blinded by either Alzheimer's or utter idiocy!

1 country alone cannot suddenly "decide" that after refusing it 2 times previously, its time to accept that a "genocide" has happened without no proper investigation! Everyone knows why they did it and if you cant see the political interests behind it then i suggest you wipe the shit out of your eyes! Im sure you are old enough to know better, or maybe a little too old

On the other hand, people cannot go around glorifying a terrorist organization that has been accepted as such by the whole world and not expect to go to prison while they are constantly killing people on the east!

Do you care at all about the Turks that recently died? Do you condemn these killings or not?

So basically according to you, French can jail people for denying a supposed "genocide" that happened ages ago, which no one is sure of, but Turkey cannot jail people for glorifying the murderers of today!

Your logic is beyond rationality yet you have the audacity to call me a fascist loser with your half lame argument, racist asshole, your kind should be locked up along with your PKK buddies!

And we are supposed to unite with people like you on this island? We must be totally crazy!

I cannot but agree on your argument there Shamaran. When it suits them they will shout blue murder. When the argument is turned against them they will cry foul. I will ignore the colorful language this once.

Regards

Deniz

[shahmaran]

Yes, sorry Deniz i get carried away

But it does not make my point any less valid and im glad that others can also see the amount of hypocrisy such goons submit to this forum, and i tell you 80% of the arguments here fall into the same category.

People love preaching on about ethics and justice only when Turkey is in question.

[Nikephoros]

How many people have been prosecuted in France for denying genocide, besides academics who are genocide deniers? The only one prosecuted for denying the in France regarding the Armenian genocide for what he wrote in a Le Monde article was Bernard Lewis.

http://www.ids.net/~gregan/dec_eng.html

Whereas, in the remarks he made on November 16, 1993, the
import of which was not mitigated, but rather strengthened, by his
clarification of January 1, 1994, Bernard Lewis, by answering the
question "Why do the Turks still refuse to acknowledge the Armenian
genocide?" with the remark: "Do you mean the Armenian version of
this event," substantiates the idea that the reality of the genocide
is only a product of the imagination of the Armenian people,
are ostensibly the only people to assert the existence of a
concerted plan, implemented on the orders of the Young Turk
government, to destroy the Armenian nation;

On the otherhand in Turkey article 301 is so vague that no one really knows what will get prosecuted or not, this thread shows that the censorship in Turkey is huge and the evidence presented here is a small sample. In Turkey, Ragip Zarakolu, the publisher of books on the Armenian genocide, is prosecuted, his wife is prosecuted, he receives death threats from fascist nationalists, his publishing house is burnt down.. See: http://www.pen.org/page.php/prmID/431

You are really self deluded into buying into the lies of Kemalism. The French leaders believe in an ideology called classic neo-liberalism, which has a strong emphasis for free speech. The Turkish leaders are getting their politics and ideology from Kemalism(fascist European nationalism combined with Islam) and Islam directly. Islamic societies do not allow differing opinions. During zenith of the Ottoman Empire the ulema never even allowed the printing press because it would challenge Islamic orthodoxy according to them.

If you cared about free speech which you do not since it is not a concept germane to Turkish civilization; you would be more concerned about article 301 than what happens in France. France is a country where the population is non-muslim and from the Western European civilization that developed concepts such as free speech, which do not exist in 99.8% Sunni Muslim Turkey.

[Nikephoros]

On the other hand, people cannot go around glorifying a terrorist organization that has been accepted as such by the whole world and not expect to go to prison while they are constantly killing people on the east!

Do you care at all about the Turks that recently died? Do you condemn these killings or not?

Turkish lunatic, have you ever proven these allegations? All you said in when I excerpted the journalists spending Bayram in jail is:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=60

Interesting site, i presume all these were Kurdish reporters who probably got persecuted for glorifying terrorists or supporting the partition of Turkey, it is not surprising, i have not heard the name of not even 1 of these newspapers.

Then above your fanatic Sunni Muslim Turk Soldier self makes even more wild assumptions in the same vain assuming you proved what you made in your allegation just by making the allegation. Learn to prove something or follow a debate. Before you can do this you must stop to be a Kemalist and expect to jail journalists, make death threats to Turkish dissidents, etc. to create "official history" (resmi tarih).

[shahmaran]

You don't say anything new, except you just cross reference irrelevant events to quickly label every Turk as fascist, to be honest no one really gives a crap about the PKK supporters, just like no one really cares about all the people the US is detaining under NO LAW simply for being Muslim, those lovely French should acknowledge their own genocides before they get into other peoples! You should acknowledge supporting the Milosevic genocide before you start talking so much crap about Turks. Turkey has gone through extreme times requiring extreme measure in order to keep her self together, whats your excuse genius?

And stop avoiding my question!!

Do youconsider the PKK as a terrorist organization and care for the Turks they killed in the past decade, around 40,000 to be precise, or not?

Let me take a guess, probably not! And not because you truly support their cause but because you are a spineless hypocrite racist baboon who would support anything that goes against Turkey to sooth your ancient bitterness, give it up pal no one cares anymore, we are not Ottomans anymore either. Grow the hell up!

[Nikephoros]

Most Turks never intend to respect free speech or plurality of opinions or have respect for different ethnicities. Those the kinds of values are associated with classic neo-liberalism. Turks are Islam and Kemalist fascism.

Stop trying to hijack this thread to nowhere.

http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruines ... _Kurds.htm

... "The first labour migrants from Turkey were recruited from the western and central parts of the country, and the Kurds were therefore under-represented among them. The balance changed in the course of the 1970s, when the proportion of migrants from eastern Turkey increased. Most of these migrants thought of themselves primarily as Turks in Europ[e], however, even if they belonged to such ethnic or religious minority groups in Turkey as the Kurds or the Alevis. Many of them had internalised, or were reluctant to challenge, Turkey’s official doctrine that every citizen of Turkey is a Turk. Only gradually did these immigrants in Europe “rediscover” or dare to emphasise their Kurdish identity. This process of rediscovery, which owes much to the activities of Kurdish students, and later of political refugees, is still going on. The so-called second generation, consisting of immigrant workers’ children who have grown up in Europe, tend to be much more interested in Kurdish identity and Kurdish politics than their parents were. Many parents returned to their Kurdish roots under the influence of their children." ...

... "Whereas in Turkey they had been obliged to express themselves in Turkish,[19] once they lived in Europe they were no longer subjected to the ban on Kurdish." ...

The above is from Martin van Bruinessen, anthropologist and a serious source on Kurdish issues in Turkey and elsewhere.

From fanatic Kemalist fascists:

terrorism ....... terrorism ....... terrorism

Same song and it is defended by jailing, prosecuting, death threats, nationalist mobs and is just plain Kemalist fascism.

[shahmaran]

Still avoiding my question, what do you call the death of 40,000 Turks?

Your astonishing ignorance does not actually surprise a bit, me given the nature of your posts, a racist blaming others for racism, whats new