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"Northern Cyprus" is the ultimate problem!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby CopperLine » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:04 am

Just to clarify further, Get Real, when you said "You’ve answered that yourself… “routing via Turkey is required” so they’re not direct flights" the only reason that they're via Turkey and not direct is beacuse Turkey is the only state that recognizes TRNC at the moment. But by definition if other states recognised TRNC then flights could be direct from that state to TRNC. Why ? Because a flight agreement could be a simple bilateral agreement.

If I've understood Andros correctly, he's right to point out that the legal question is secondary to the political realities on the ground. Let's say, for sake of argument, that GCs are 100% right on the legal front, in the end as they sat in English law, 'possession is nine-tenths of the law'. In the end it is not law which will deteremine the future of Cyprus it is the day-to-day politics of ordinary people.
Last edited by CopperLine on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:04 am

Viewpoint wrote:There are no restrictions on GC visiting the TRNC. You GCs have these misconcieved ideas about the north fed to you by your propaganda machines, come see for yourselves its no different to any other country thats what really makes GCs sick.


How many other "countries" of that size are there . . . . that have over 40,000 Turkish Troops stationed there (illegally)?

How NORMAL is that ? . . . you have a sad, distorted view of normality, VP !
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Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:08 am

CopperLine wrote:Just to clarify further, Get Real, when you said "You’ve answered that yourself… “routing via Turkey is required” so they’re not direct flights" the only reason that they're via Turkey and not direct is beacuse Turkey is the only state that recognizes TRNC at the moment. But by definition if other states recognised TRNC then flights could be direct from that state to TRNC. Why ? Because a flight agreement could be a simple bilateral agreement.


How long has it been unrecognized for, and how much longer will it continue to be unrecognized . . . surely that tells you something about the pathetic attempts to make it fit in with the rest of the world!

If it was legal . . . there would have been NO time delay in its recognition.
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Postby Get Real! » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:18 am

CopperLine wrote:I'm astonished that people seem to be astonished at the flights to and from Ercan. I use it all the time, very nice airport, reasonable and good service whether you are going north or south.

You might also want to give the Tamil Tigers' airways a try and tell us all about their astonishing service... :lol:

BUt the point, Get Real, is that the ICAO can't 'be taken' to the ICJ. You've got the law wrong again. The ICJ hears disputes between states, not with international organisations (except UN agencies for which it may give an advisory opinion).

The ICAO is a UN agency.

So again, if flights came to /from Syria or Germany or anywhere else - without touching down in Turkey - the most that RoC could do is express its outrage and threaten or actually impose some kind of sanctions aganist the violators. That is a political decision, not a matter of law.

If the world is lawless as you seem to suggest then explain why Britain made an official announcement with regards to direct flights with the "TRNC" not being legally possible.
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Postby CopperLine » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:24 am

Phoenix,
North Cyprus is a lovely place. There's no obligation on visitors or tourists or residents to live on expropriated GC property. Come and visit some time. Sure you'll see some Turkish soldiers but they're not very noticeable, and certainly not as noticeable as in many countries in Europe. As I'd said in a thread earlier this year, compared with other countries I've lived or worked in that have been 'under occupation', the occupation of north Cyprus is conserably less conspicuous an obvious.

People in north Cyprus do not have horns, hooves and breath fire. Like most people in most countries they try to lead normal lives, going to work, trying to make ends meet, enjoying the company of friends and family, watching soap operas, moaning about government and bureaucracy, and generally getting on with things. Same really as in RoC. It's not a prison camp. and it doesn't feel like its 'under the boot'. People come and go across the border, and if people want to leave the island they typically go through Ercan or sometimes go through Larnaca. Getting to the UK via Ercan takes marginally longer than going from Larnaca (though delays and screw-ups by the airlines I suspect is more common at Larnaca).
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Postby CopperLine » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:29 am

Get Real,

First I did not suggest that world was 'lawless' - where did you get that idea ?

Second, ICAO is indeed a specialised agency of the UN and therefore, as I said in my last post, is able to request an advisory opinion from the ICJ. An advisory opinion is NOT the same as a case being taken for judgement to the ICJ.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:29 am

phoenix wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:There are no restrictions on GC visiting the TRNC. You GCs have these misconcieved ideas about the north fed to you by your propaganda machines, come see for yourselves its no different to any other country thats what really makes GCs sick.


How many other "countries" of that size are there . . . . that have over 40,000 Turkish Troops stationed there (illegally)?

How NORMAL is that ? . . . you have a sad, distorted view of normality, VP !


Normal in the sense that we have one of the strongest armies in the world protecting us, that sticks in your throat me thinks. If the tables were turned and you had 100.000 GC soldiers would you be complaining or in a rush to throw them out???
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Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:37 am

CopperLine wrote:Phoenix,
North Cyprus is a lovely place. There's no obligation on visitors or tourists or residents to live on expropriated GC property. Come and visit some time. Sure you'll see some Turkish soldiers but they're not very noticeable, and certainly not as noticeable as in many countries in Europe. As I'd said in a thread earlier this year, compared with other countries I've lived or worked in that have been 'under occupation', the occupation of north Cyprus is conserably less conspicuous an obvious.

People in north Cyprus do not have horns, hooves and breath fire. Like most people in most countries they try to lead normal lives, going to work, trying to make ends meet, enjoying the company of friends and family, watching soap operas, moaning about government and bureaucracy, and generally getting on with things. Same really as in RoC. It's not a prison camp. and it doesn't feel like its 'under the boot'. People come and go across the border, and if people want to leave the island they typically go through Ercan or sometimes go through Larnaca. Getting to the UK via Ercan takes marginally longer than going from Larnaca (though delays and screw-ups by the airlines I suspect is more common at Larnaca).


Stop PRETENDING it's all so normal! I would feel ashamed to have seized someone else's land, continue to occupy it under force (whether well-hidden or not), when not far away, lie 200,000 people that I have displaced. :oops:

The WORRY is Copperline, that you are SO FAR gone in your pretence of normality, that you have convinced yourselves . . . and you are therefore a population of mass-delusional, insane people trying to convince everyone that all is well . . . I would rather visit the "Village of the Damned" . . . because they would appear more normal than anyone living in the "TRNC".
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Postby Get Real! » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:38 am

CopperLine wrote:Just to clarify further, Get Real, when you said "You’ve answered that yourself… “routing via Turkey is required” so they’re not direct flights" the only reason that they're via Turkey and not direct is beacuse Turkey is the only state that recognizes TRNC at the moment. But by definition if other states recognised TRNC then flights could be direct from that state to TRNC. Why ? Because a flight agreement could be a simple bilateral agreement.

You made a scene earlier in pointing out that there is no such thing as a formal recognition paper exchanged between states and we agreed that it is the mutual ACTIONS between states that indicated their acknowledgement of each other yet now you talk of... "if other states recognized TRNC..." :lol: Methinks you're beating around the bush...

If I've understood Andros correctly, he's right to point out that the legal question is secondary to the political realities on the ground. Let's say, for sake of argument, that GCs are 100% right on the legal front, in the end as they sat in English law, 'possession is nine-tenths of the law'. In the end it is not law which will deteremine the future of Cyprus it is the day-to-day politics of ordinary people.

The problem with that attitude though is that 10, 20 or 50 years from now Turkey’s military strength may diminish and the RoC may then see fit to toast the “TRNC” and I’m sure that many fools will then cry foul and wonder what went wrong and someone might then remind of how decades ago justice was not served so it is being served now because when the rule of law is ignored it can come back and haunt you later…

As I’ve said on other threads and forums, the Turkish Cypriots may laugh now but unfortunately their future generations will pay later.
Last edited by Get Real! on Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:40 am

Viewpoint wrote:
phoenix wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:There are no restrictions on GC visiting the TRNC. You GCs have these misconcieved ideas about the north fed to you by your propaganda machines, come see for yourselves its no different to any other country thats what really makes GCs sick.


How many other "countries" of that size are there . . . . that have over 40,000 Turkish Troops stationed there (illegally)?

How NORMAL is that ? . . . you have a sad, distorted view of normality, VP !


Normal in the sense that we have one of the strongest armies in the world protecting us, that sticks in your throat me thinks. If the tables were turned and you had 100.000 GC soldiers would you be complaining or in a rush to throw them out???


If we needed 40,000 or 100,000 GC soldiers in a country as small as Cyprus . . . and went around PRETENDING that it was NORMAL and acceptable . . . I would REALLY be worried about my state of mind! :lol:
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