Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Semi recognition does not formalise matters. There will always be legitimate claims on the north by the rightful owners of property and their descendants. The only way to formalise a settlement is to have a settlement, and it must be validated by the only source of sovereign power in a modern democratic state: the people themselves. In short the people who can legalise the north are those that lost their property. And it looks like they are not doing it.

If you look at the attempts to fix other problems within the west- Kossovo, Northern Ireland, Bosnia, there was never any wholesale property confiscation. And remember how long the two Germanies were divided and how quickly that rift was mended and how those who treated East Germany as a "working country" lost their bets.

Looking back over the recent (post WW II) history of Cyprus it looks like there is always a need for a catalytic event to move on to the next stage. A future catalytic event could be the discovery of oil in Cypriot seas, or an upheaval in Turkey, and then they will remember us again. At the moment the Europeans and the Angolamericans do not have us on the top of their do lists. So things are likely to go on as they are for some time. 30 years, 50 years is nothing compared to our progress and survival on the island.

[Andros]

phoenix,

My apologies Phoenix if my wording didn't come across politically correct, as I was only using the term "Northern Cyprus" in a Geographic sense - perhaps like Western-Cyprus, Eastern-Cyprus or even a NorthEast-Cyprus.

I don't want to play on the forum's Turkish participant's trick in causing a conflict between us Greek Cypriots. Ultimately, my use of the term northern Cyprus now appears to be "officially" used in all news agency reports, Reuters and now even some Greek/Greek Cypriot agencies - Like Cyprus-Mail for instance. At my age, panic would probably lead to a heart-attack, but caution is far better than a cure. Therefore, my main emphasis in my line of questioning is essentially based on prevention. As for the holiday Brochures debate, I hoped you'd understand why the small items promoting Turkey and Northern Cyprus is also a deep concern for the ROC. This is in no way, in my opinion, trivial. It's major as it gives the world the impression that Northern Cyprus is an add-on country to Turkey, and not a disputed entity of the Republic of Cyprus.

Please check out the many statements and reports of Michael Klosson, former US Ambassador to Cyprus and his reference to a Euro-Taiwanisation of Northern Cyprus if you think my concerns are not even worth a head-spin. According to what's been happening since 2004; with the isolation idea and etc, these all appear to be in line with the exact statements given by Michael.K. Do you now believe I am writing for nothing.

I believe that we need to tackle this issue head-on as opposed to ignoring it.

I am 66 years old Phoenix, I work out of the love for my country's cause to remain as the Republic of Cyprus. English is my second language, and I wasn't educated in the UK. I may be a year past my retirement age, but like Mr Glafcos Clerides, my heart and sole is strong, my work is a passion and my wish is genuine. I know we can achieve a pure federal formula, but not by shutting out what's practically happening today.

In my time, we worked in unison, but unfortunately for the children of today, they all appear to have only empty opinions with no punch - apart from the few pounds that they wish to earn to purchase their expensive cars and houses.

I understand your frustration with my line of reasoning, but it's answers that I am looking for and not acusations. How Greek Cypriot are you Phoenix? Have you served in the army? Do you currently have a ROC passport? Have you ever lived in the ROC for more than a holiday season? Have you ever sat along side some of our political heads and heard their concerns? My line of reasoning is exactly what's being discussed behind closed doors.

If you're sure that nothing will ever become of the occupied north then I take my hat off to you, but then why participate in a forum so religiously if it's all fine? Why can't we just walk pass the border and claim our land back? Why is HSBC situated in occupied Kyrenia? And, why does Voda phone operate in the occupied area as Northern Cyprus - Turkey?

I never panic Phoenix. Always stress my concerns to those who choose to keep their eyes shut until the light is too bright to open them again. In terms of the the occupied area, it appears that the international community are aiming their lights directly at it.

What are you all doing to prevent this from happening? Are you lobbying? Are you out in the streets of Brussels condemning? Instead of hearing of any type of condemnation by international countries, we are unfortunately hearing of hidden agreements, direct flights from Azerbaijan, ships departing and docking to and from occupied Famagusta to other destinations including those in Greece?

Are we sleeping, or do we only prefer to condemn others in an online forum.

I have witnessed many mistakes by the Cyprus government in the past, but never as much as what's been happening in the last 2 years.

Perhaps we need the advice of a Constitutional lawyer? Perhaps we need an agreement at the earliest time possible before we loose all of the 37% of the island. I like your postings Phoenix, but I would prefer more content and reasoning if possible.

Due to the many agressive and empty responses I am reading in this forum and certain news annoucements around the world concerning the highly important "Isolation" issue, and its prevention, I would say that we should all be starting to worry. Perhaps partition is the only way forward, but I don't even think that that will soon be possible as an overall agreement if we don't act soon. If the so-called Isolation is removed, we have lost 37% - without even an inch of land. Is this what our silence is aiming for?


Kind regards,
Andros

[Andros]

DT,

That's Market-Traders, not makers. There's a huge difference. Market Traders, like in Emerging Markets, trading floor, trading room, stock exchange - Money! These are the figures with whom control our Economy, advise our governments on the budget and shape our economic and political strength as one of the front-runner countries of the European Union. Without good traders, we have no real influence.

If you don't know anything about the above, please check the website of some of the most powerful and influential Investment Banks in the world.

Sorry to sound so blunt, but all Greek Cypriots should be aware of the Economic power of our Cyprus government if you wish to gain a better understanding of the bigger picture.

Kind regards.

I hope no Turkish Cypriots read your comments!

[phoenix]

Good evening Andros

I am sorry if my posts lack content, but sorry excuse I know, I have limited windows of time on the forum due to work, business and family commitments.

I am a mum, living in U.K., born in Cyprus, resided there till 6 years old then moved to U.K. . . under duress . . . due to return January, hence reemergence in interest to all things to do with Cyprus.

I am desperate to see a resolution to the Cyprus problem not just because of having a son who will probably be serving the military in a few years time but because my father died not seeing Cyprus in one piece.

Mine are purely emotional reasons for seeking re-unification, and as such I am adamant that only re-unification will suffice. Anything else would be compromise and capitulation and for me . . . failure.

I will do nearly anything to see the Turkish Army leave Cyprus, the "border" dissolved and people return to their homes.

I do not see that any fancy solutions are necessary.

Very simple, Turks go back, Cyprus whole.

[Andros]

THANK YOU Phoenix.

You are surely a very intelligent individual. My wish for a resolution is also similar to yours, but I, perhaps similar to yourself, am fed-up of the continuation of the status quo and how the hell we got here after soo many years. My entire reasoning is based around that many lost opportunites since 1974, why it's taking soo long and how certain parties get away with it.

I highly appreciate your response and the time you have taken to answer my post. I truly am happy of your last posting.

Superb. I look forward to more answers from you - when you have the time of course.

Kind regards,
Andros.

DT - I hope you didn't take offense to my previous posting.

[Get Real!]

Andros,

You are OBVIOUSLY posting with the hidden agenda to promote the “TRNC” by posing as a “concerned” Greek Cypriot citizen but your very elaborate explanations to convince and sanitize the public to this idea is a dead giveaway!

On the other hand, you may be a Greek Cypriot from the opposition attempting to sway public opinion against the current government by instilling an urgency of recognition of the “TRNC”, in which case you are engaging in TREASON by indirectly promoting the “TRNC” to achieve your diabolical goal.

Let me reassure the public that the “TRNC” is officially condemned by the whole world and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING any country can do to recognize it without UN approval, especially if retaining their own international rights and credibility means anything to them.

No regards, GR.

[T_C]

Sorry to hear about your dad.

[paaul12]

Hi All,

I have been told by my many Market-trader contacts from Greece that "Northern Cyprus" is fast becoming known as a "Working" country thanks to the non-resolution efforts of the Cyprus peace process!

In addition, I was also informed that, even though the so-called "TRNC" is not officially recognised, it does not necessarily mean that it’s not viewed as a "Country", namely, "Northern Cyprus". This, in my view, is extremely disturbing.

In other words, are we facing a situation where the failure to reach a resolution of the Cyprus problem, together with the existence of an occupied Northern area for such a long period of time since the 1974 invasion, is now being viewed as a Country (now commonly referred to as "Northern Cyprus" in Turkish holiday brochures). With the constant referral of the removal of the so-called isolation of "Northern Cyprus", do you think the international community is preparing, or has prepared a Taiwan style acknowledgement of the occupied area as "Northern Cyprus" the country?

Why do I ask such a series of questions? Because even FIFA has made it apparent that, even though they would never accept the so-called TRNC as it's not an accepted and recognised state due to the amount of UN Resolutions against it, they could accept the application of "Northern Cyprus" as a country! Therefore, my ultimate question to us all is, is there a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN the term “REPUBLIC” and “COUNTRY”?

Is this what's going on with the call to remove the so-called ISOLATION of "Northern Cyprus", as opposed removing the isolation of the so-called TRNC?

What do you think is going on?

Personally, I think that the international community is trying to promote "Northern Cyprus" as a Euro-Taiwan style in order to push us to accepting an Annan like plan in the near future by threatening us with a semi-recognised Northern Cyprus.

Or, are they (being the International community - say no more!) legitimising Northern Cyprus as an official province of Turkey? Like say Wales of the United Kingdom, as, why else would have “Northern Cyprus” have been mentioned in an agreement between Turkey and the UK. In other words, what has Northern Cyprus actually got to do with the Republic of Turkey?

It all appears to be getting out of hand and I hope our leaders are ready. I am not a politician, but we are not stupid either!

Thanks for posting such good news and opinions, it looks like after all theses years and slowly chipping away, results are finally starting to appear, you are correct, it wont be long now and the world will recognise Northern Cyprus fully

[denizaksulu]

Andros,

You are OBVIOUSLY posting with the hidden agenda to promote the “TRNC” by posing as a “concerned” Greek Cypriot citizen but your very elaborate explanations to convince and sanitize the public to this idea is a dead giveaway!

On the other hand, you may be a Greek Cypriot from the opposition attempting to sway public opinion against the current government by instilling an urgency of recognition of the “TRNC”, in which case you are engaging in TREASON by indirectly promoting the “TRNC” to achieve your diabolical goal.

Either way, to me you are SCUM and should be treated as such.

Let me reassure the public that the “TRNC” is officially condemned by the whole world and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING any country can do to recognize it without UN approval, especially if retaining their own international rights and credibility means anything to them.

No regards, GR.

Good morning GR. Just when I was going to give Andros a warm welcome to the forum and his very gentlemanly post, you shattered my dreams. Why is it that anybody with a different opinion than yours is 'scum' or a 'TRNC Promoter'.

Regards

Deniz Andros, WELCOME anyway.

[observer]

I too thought that Andros' comments were both gentlemanly and, more importantly, accurate. The longer the TRNC is in existence, the more it becomes regarded as part of the natural state of affairs. Whether Andros is Turkish, Greek, Mongolian or a man from Mars doesn't really affect the accuracy of what he is saying.

The world has changed since 1974, and quoting decades old UN resolutions, as many GCs do, is of little use when fewer and fewer people pay much attention to them (see also UN resolutions on Tibet). A major event, such as a regional upheaval, may happen but that is likely to cause more problems that it solves.

The major GC demands, as I understand them, are:

1. Settlers to go back to Turkey. Unlikley to happen as many have lived here for many years and no-one in the international community is going to support a new round of ethnic cleansing. TCs might as well demand that Pontian Greeks, Sri Lankans and Philipinoes be expelled from ROC.

2. Everyone gets there land back. Unlikley to happen since there have been so many changes to land use since 1974. Also, much of it was agricultural land and are there huge numbers of TCs wanting to go back to subsistance farming? Compensation is a very strong possibility.

3. Turkish troops to go back to the mainland. A very real possibility once agreement is reached between Cypriots. Greek troops and UN troops should also leave, which I'm sure we can all agree on.

Unless there is a willingness to accept how realities stand now, the gulf will widen, and it will be more and more impossible to put together a common Cyprus in any form.