Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

I think Daemon is an underaged minor. I see the mind of a child there.

[Daemon]

The term “European solution” is not in Papadopoulos vocabulary! He never used such a term! The term is only used by “EuroKo” party! There is no such a thing like a “European solution!” There is only a solution based on international legality, legitimacy, human and peoples rights, and on the historical realities of this country which are not the “historical realities” of the Turks and Talat that only go back 30-40 years! The history of this country is much longer than 30-40 years! There is also a solution based on surrender, capitulation, expediency an on the “might is right!” I choose the first, you choose the second! That is our main difference!

Yes I agree but also Omoirou and Evroko(that they rejecting federation) and members of Diko does not accept the BBF so no one can really understand what Papadopoulos and the fanatics that support him what, If you think what this is the best you can do with your foreign policy I’m afraid what you have to accept also the result of the lost creditbility and the absolute isolation and stop trying to accuse everyone else to justify the main responsible for this absolute humiliation of your foreign policy.

Not it wasn’t! There were two separate citizenships! One so called external and one internal! The internal citizenship of the TCCS was automatically reserved exclusively by the members of the TC community and the mainland Turkish settlers, who were all together elevated into a separate people! Even the GCs that would have returned inside the boundaries of the TCCS, would not have obtained the status of internal citizens of that state, but only the status of residents, just like the British and other EU nationals now have in the south! To have been able to obtain the status of internal citizens of that state, they should have gone through a “naturalisation” process, as if they were immigrants entering into a foreign country, seeking citizenship from it after they would comply with all the requirements, apply and then approved for one by the owners of the state, i.e. the TC people! Is this how it is in all other federations? No it isn’t!

Yes it was, there are two or more internal citizenship status in every federation and there was only one nation and everything else have no sense.

The 1/3 of the GC’s had the same rights with the TC’s as a political minority on northern state and everyone wanted could go and stay there forever as a citizen of other municipality. And even the 1/3 could be broke in courts.

Deamon, how you can come here and play the expert, when you do not even know if the settlers were allowed to vote and that in fact the majority of them voted “yes” on Turkey’s instructions, is beyond me to comprehend! At least do not pretend to be one that knows everything, if you are missing such key knowledge and information!

You are the one that pretends to know everything with out have a clue besides your fantasies for your great leader.

And there are many reasons for the settlers to say no like for example they did not had legal property in the new anan plan situation.

Oh, you now want me to bring you parts of the TCCS constitution which was an annex to the Annan plan, to which you voted “yes” because you “knew” it was a “good” plan! Before you claimed you have studied and analysed the Annan plan so well, that you know everything and that you are certain Papadopoulos cheated the GCs! Now you do not know what was in the constitutions of the two states, neither you know were to find them!

The vast majority of the GC’s (and you are one of them in lower level) they do not have a clue about the plan and the yes voters are keep spreading the Papadopoulos bullshits in his crying speech, no I did not study the TC constitution at the right time but the were not much they could do according to the actual plan.

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE TURKISH CYPRIOT STATE
PREAMBLE
We, the Turkish Cypriot people, bearing in mind that the territorial integrity, security and constitutional order of the Turkish Cypriot State is guaranteed under the Treaty of Guarantee, sovereignly proclaim this Constitution by approval at referendum of 20 April 2004 as the Constitution of the Turkish Cypriot State.

PART I
General Principles
The Form and Characteristics of the Turkish Cypriot State
Article 1
The Turkish Cypriot State, as one of the two Constituent States of the United Cyprus Republic, which is based on the political equality, bi-zonality and equal status of the two Constituent States, representing the distinct identity of Turkish Cypriots and their equal political status in a bizonal partnership. It is a secular state based on the principles of human rights, democracy, representative republican government, social justice and the supremacy of law.

Yes and did anyone believe what this could be otherwise through a BBF?

This is what some daemon said in the past:

The agreement of Ntektash and Makarios it says what the 2 zones will by on the authority of every community.

The federations in Europe like Belgium and Switzerland have culture- language-religion-community based circuits (zones, cantons) and of course non of them is a result of 2 ethnic cleansing (the 63 and the 74) and they don’t have a community that claims the ownership of the other. I’m saying that because the arguments of the Turkish Cypriot’s have sense for the restriction of the 1/3 that can be permanent resident in the north state. I don know and I do not believe what such restriction exists in other countries but in our case (like every federation) is different. This restriction was not in the Anan plan 3 but if I was a Turkish Cypriot’s and wanted to keep an area cultural based to avoid the possible domination I was never going to accept the notion on the Anan plan 3 and I could justify this through the existing data and through history.

As about the proposed solution by Kifeas I don’t know and I don’t believe what it exist anywhere else in Europe or in the world where we have federations with different culture-language-religion etc. He is suggesting a never existed bicommunal ghost federation with no cultural based borders-zones-circuits-cantons of his own mind where the two states will not have an identity to be possible in the end for both states to have the same Greek identity by domination.

The thing is what that kind of solution was never discussed and I doubt that it will ever be possible to discuss something that have nothing to do with European standards where the functionality of the malti-cultural based federation is based in the community structures of the cultural based zones-circuits-cantons.

In America they don’t have a multi cultural based federation and the states are not based in cultural elements and they have only one national language.

America is like Ancient Greece, where because of the freedom it adopts all cultures under the one and only America(or Ancient Greece) culture and the majority rules.

Let’s see some examples:

Belgium as I said is multi-communal, multi-zone federation that every state is based in cultural elements.

Switzerland as I said is multi-communal, multi-zone federation that every state is based in cultural elements.

Netherlands is not multi-communal federation and their states are not divided for cultural reason and they have only one national language.

Germany is not multi-communal federation and their states are not divided for cultural reason and they have only one national language.

Russia is a multi-communal federation and they have 21 states based on cultural minorities.

Canada is a multi-zone multi-communal (I do not know if it could be called bicommunal because there is only 2 official languages) confederation that their states are based in the English and French language. For example Ontario, have de facto the English language and Quebec have defacto the French language.

Austria is multi-zone multi-communal federation close to Kifeas dream where all the other cultures has dominated by the German one and it is not random the fact that is still the most fascist country in the world that have neonazi orientation. But some states like the Carinthia manage to save their culture from the nazi Germanitation and they kept their Slovenian language and Slovenian, Croatian, Hungarian languages are officially recognised regional languages and Austrian Sign Language is a protected minority language throughout the country, but they all speak German and more than the 90% have the German for official language.

Bicommunality and multicommunality can exist only where in specific regions the cultural based communities will have de facto majority.

In a federation in every case there must be cultural based cantons and this reality came to the light after what happened at 63 and this is why after all this years some people close to this president(and they are keep learning) started to understand what they rejected the BBF and not the Anan plan.

Do you see nothing wrong in the above two paragraphs? Is the above a constitution accommodating the GC refugees and any other GC that would have returned and settled back into the northern part of his country, out of which they were illegally expelled 30 years ago? In my eyes, it is a constitution that makes the assumption that the northern 30% of the territory of Cyprus, i.e. the area that would have been under the administration of the TCCS, belongs to the Turkish Cypriot people (notice the use of the term people instead of the term community,) and only them in their ethnic identity can do what they want in that part of Cyprus (sovereignly,) as if they are now the absolute owners of that part of Cyprus! Is this how it is in all other federations? No it isn’t! Where are the civil rights of all the permanent residents of that part of Cyprus, if it says that the state represents only “the distinct identity of Turkish Cypriots?”

It was a TC state coming through the realities starting from 63 and 74 like it would be in every federation and the 1/3 of the GC’s had the right to obtain the internal citizenship status but keep also their cultural identity and vote for the senate elections in the GC’s side. And yes there is one difference about the 1/3 restriction but even this notion that it was a result of TPap negations could be challenged in European courts, even if it was a permanent exclusion of the European vested interest like there was also another one exclusion that forbidding the Settlement and the change of the demographics from Turk settlers, that it was a GC’s must.

Every federation have it’s differences according to the circumstances but I’ll agree what the 1/3 had no sense and it could be a better notion on this, but like I’ve said this notion could be challenged in ECHR by individuals that could stay in the northern state for some decades with out the ability to obtain the internal citizenship status and after long time this notion could not stand in Europe, it was going to vanish through the European circumstances after 20 years and after the implementation of the plan, that it was the most difficult part.

In the end Papadopoulos could point out his worries and request better notions on this plan while he could and when he decided to do so (like Christofias is accusing him now) because the result of this policy is the total loss of incredibility and the total isolation, where no one can really understand the reasons of the rejection and where the main reason in the specific poll after the referendum was fear, that is still the number one weapon of TPap government against the only people that he can fool from now on, against his own people.

A politician and a government that keep spreading around fear(where the Anan is synonymous with Satanan, the confusion on the subject is getting bigger and bigger) because they never had any reasonable arguments, this ancient behavior could be respected by theocracy and communism dictatorships but in our days this bullshits can’t lead anywhere and it’s obvious to anyone that have some live brain cells.

[Daemon]

I think Daemon is an underaged minor. I see the mind of a child there.

Yes very nice try, after this entire matureness you show about the black whores and the ghost source you have every right to answer to your harmed by your self ego.

Keep scoring points guys (with out saying a thing), is the better (probably the only) you can do.

[miltiades]

DAEMON WRITES:
CAN SOMEBODY TRANSLATE PLEASE .

""""""""""Yes I agree but also Omoirou and Evroko(that they rejecting federation) and members of Diko does not accept the BBF so no one can really understand what Papadopoulos and the fanatics that support him what he, If you think what this is the best you can do with your foreign policy I’m afraid what you have to accept also the result of the lost incredibility and the absolute isolation and stop trying to accuse everyone else to justify the main responsible for this absolute humiliation of your foreign policy."""""
CAN SOMEONE TRANSLATE THIS AS WELL !!

""The vast majority of the GC’s (and you are one of them in lower level) they do not have a clue about the plan and the yes voters are keep spreading Papadopoulos bullshits in his crying speech, no I did not study the TC constitution at the right time but the were not much they could do according to the actual plan."""
AND THIS TOO !!
""Every federation have it’s differences according to the circumstances but I’ll agree what the 1/3 had no sense and it could be a better notion on this, but like I’ve said this notion could be challenged in ECHR by individuals that could stay in the northern state for some decades with out the ability to obtain the internal citizenship status and after long time this notion could not stand in Europe, it was going to vanish through the European circumstances after the after 20 years and after the implementation of the plan, that it was the most difficult part. ""

RE MALAKA , TI VLAKIES INE AFTES .

While you are at it made tell us what lost incredibility means !! Is it the same but only opposite to regaining virginity !!

[Daemon]

creditbility

You did find an orthographic mistake and you keep trying to score with idiocy with out a single argument, congratulation you are one of the smartest donkeys around.

[Daemon]

He drive Cypriots to the referendum while he could avoid this evolvement by rejecting the plan him self, after that he started a third world propaganda against the plan by crying and spreading fear and by throwing mud to the other opinion with out giving the possibility to the people to understand what they were about to reject and with out giving the possibility to Akel to make it’s own thought. And after all this “patriotic” acts he end up by signing the justification of Turkish occupation and gave them the passport to Europe, can anyone explain me that?

And how can a foreigner accuse Turkey for the no solution situation while TPap have agreed and have sighed what they did their best to solve the problem?

[miltiades]

How are you mate ??

[Daemon]

Ο Τάσος Παπαδόπουλος ενοχλήθηκε που το θυμίσαμε κάποιοι, μετά την έκδοση της Έκθεσης Προόδου της Τουρκίας. Μιλώντας στους δημοσιογράφους στη Λεμεσό, διερωτήθηκε «γιατί κάποιοι κολλάνε και θυμούνται το πρώτο ψήφισμα της Ε.Ε., Συμβουλίου Υπουργών βεβαίως - όπως είπε - το οποίο έλεγε, συγχαίρω την Τουρκία για την υποστήριξη που δίνει στις προσπάθειες των Η.Ε., ψηφίζοντας το Σχέδιο Ανάν».
«Σε αυτή τη δήλωση εσείς βρίσκετε αποενοχοποίηση της εισβολής;», ρώτησε τους δημοσιογράφους ο πρόεδρος της Δημοκρατίας, προσθέτοντας πως «σε πέντε επόμενες αποφάσεις των Υπουργών αυτή η φράση έχει φύγει, έχει μεταβληθεί από το 'ελπίζουμε να συνεχίσει η Τουρκία την υποστήριξη' σε 'καλούμε την Τουρκία να συνεχίσει να υποστηρίζει'».
Σκόπιμα έχω παραθέσει τις πλήρης δηλώσεις του κ. Παπαδόπουλου για να μπορέσει να καταλάβει ο αναγνώστης την απελπιστική θέση στην οποία βρισκόμαστε. Ο πρόεδρος της χώρας επιχειρεί να θυμίσει κιόλας ότι την αποενοχοποίηση (την οποία δεν θεωρεί τέτοια) της Τουρκίας, δεν την έκανε το Ε.Σ. αλλά το Συμβούλιο Υπουργών «βεβαίως». Γιατί βεβαίως το Συμβούλιο Υπουργών; Θέλει να πει πως αν ήταν ο ίδιος δεν θα υπέγραφε ποτέ κάτι τέτοιο; Και τι σημασία έχει αν δεν είναι ο ίδιος αλλά ο υπουργός του αυτός που αποενοχοποίησε την Τουρκία; Και σε τι θλιβερή κατάσταση βρισκόμαστε, όταν ο ίδιος ο Τάσος Παπαδόπουλος είναι αυτός που υπέγραψε την αποενοχοποίηση της Τουρκίας, αλλά προσπαθεί να απεκδυθεί της ευθύνης; Ξέχασε, κάνει πως ξέχασε ή δεν έχει επίγνωση των γεγονότων;

Papadopoulos had sign the justification of the occupation and now he tries to blame his ministers for that (what a great and honorable person a?) .

I’m glad that alithia (the newspaper that Makarios and Yiorgatzis democrats had burn at past times) is online and I just learned this.

the above is from:

http://www.alithia.com.cy/alithia_v2/fr ... xt_id=5483

and read it is very useful especially in the case you think what you can answer to the other opinion.

Ps: Kifeas I truly believe what you are more capable for president, reconsider my suggestion.

[Kifeas]

Deamon, I honestly feel I have much better things to do in life, rather than arguing with someone that receives all his info and knowledge from the newspapers, set aside from ones such as Alithia, etc!

It is your right to remain an A-plan fanatic -out of some purely masochistic inclinations and even when 76% of the GC society have rejected it (including the 65% of a party that its entire leadership did support it;) however, you have no choice other than to respect and accept the will of the majority that considers the plan to have been unacceptable!

[lovernomore]

Deamon, I honestly feel I have much better things to do in life, rather than arguing with someone that receives all his info and knowledge from the newspapers, set aside from ones such as Alithia, etc!

It is your right to remain an A-plan fanatic -out of some purely masochistic inclinations and even when 76% of the GC society have rejected it (including the 65% of a party that its entire leadership did support it;) however, you have no choice other than to respect and accept the will of the majority that considers the plan to have been unacceptable!

I dont say much on this forum but i allways read, evry day. ithing only 2 people realy speek tru and it is Daemon and oranos64 the rest GC only live in dreem world. They have dificulty with realliti.

Kifeas, your lider fool you but he cant fool world. Evevrtthing hapening is your Papadopulos fault but you do not see, it is a real shaame becuase you are obviosly inteligant people.