Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Turkcyp,

Nobody has suggested that the figure of 35000 Turkish troops included the TC's. In any case, does it make any difference that there are 30k soldiers instead of 35k? Its still a massive number which ever way you look at it.

So my question is are Turkish soldiers on holiday in Cyprus? There is only so much polishing of boots and equipment they can do.

Of course with such a massive number of troops in the north it is expected that the rest of Cyprus be defensless and not have any soldier at all whatsoever. The troop numbers and military expenditure that we have is a direct consequence of the Turkish forces in Cyprus. Turkey pulls back a big chunck of their forces then the RoC will be obliged to do the same.

[turkcyp]

Turkcyp,

Nobody has suggested that the figure of 35000 Turkish troops included the TC's. In any case, does it make any difference that there are 30k soldiers instead of 35k? Its still a massive number which ever way you look at it.

So my question is are Turkish soldiers on holiday in Cyprus? There is only so much polishing of boots and equipment they can do.

Of course with such a massive number of troops in the north it is expected that the rest of Cyprus be defensless and not have any soldier at all whatsoever. The troop numbers and military expenditure that we have is a direct consequence of the Turkish forces in Cyprus. Turkey pulls back a big chunck of their forces then the RoC will be obliged to do the same.

Did I said anything in any post that would make you think that 30 or 35k soldiers are necessary in Cyprus?

But I can show you may be 10 post of mine from the past that says that Turkey should withdraw its troops from the island on a announces schedule without waiting any move from GC side.

All I said was TC soldiers were the ones that are mainly situated at the border, and all I said was for some reason GCs always fail to see many reailities and belive on thier own propaganda machine. (hence my example of all soldiers they see are Turkish soldiers and all mainlander they see is a settler.)

Anyway, I guess boulio suggestion of international cencus on the whole island would make things more clearer for everybody I guess. But I have a feeling that even then some GCs will rather believe on this notion of "whole world out there to get them, so census may be biased" then accept the truth.

You never know. May be we, TCs, have been living in denial about the settlers all these years, and census may proove that your claims are actually the reality and not just mere propaganda. You never know.

Take care,

[-mikkie2-]

I was not trying to contest what you thought Turkcyp. I guess it was more aimed at Insan.

There was talk that the RoC managed to get a CD rom which had details of population figures in the north. Who knows. The only sure fire way is to do a censous to establish the facts. To me that should be a prerequisite before a solution.

[donyork]

When I suggested that as a preliminary confidence-building measure Turkey should reduce its military presence to a total force of 11,250, comprising
two infantry brigades, a tank brigade and a logistics brigade, with not more than three special forces battalions, equipped with not more than 154 main battle tanks, 139 armoured reconnaissance vehicles, 43 AIFVs and 294 APCs — well, what I meant was that it should simply match what the south has. The figures given are those which the European defence survey of EU military forces quotes for the armed forces of the south (but including 1,250 Greek troops). Seems reasonable.

[brother]

All this millatary and we the people would rather never see the face of another soilder, all the hardware in cyprus we could probably make an effective assault on a larger country and win, the point is this millatary forces and equipment are just not required, LETS GET RID OF IT ALL.

[donyork]

Let's indeed, Brother, but meanwhile...

[insan]

All this millatary and we the people would rather never see the face of another soilder, all the hardware in cyprus we could probably make an effective assault on a larger country and win, the point is this millatary forces and equipment are just not required, LETS GET RID OF IT ALL.

Ok, brother. Let's get rid of it all and west the security responsibility to a bi-communal police force.


Bi-communal Police Force

Ratio:1 TC /4 GCs
Ethnic Partisanship in each unit: %75
Ethnic Vulgarism in each unit: %85
Percentage of Hiyartos in each unit: %70
Brutality: %60
Total corruption in each unit: %90


Watch the movie brother. Am I evil-minded, pessimist, paranoid or realist?

[brother]

My good friend insan,

paranoid springs to mind but maybe cautious also could be right.
This notion of no trust to the other side is due to our previous history but since then many of us have grown up and matured, and all these soilders etc. only serve one purpose and that is to show our distrust in the other, with such a stance how can we hope to ever make peace.

An international force with a 50-50 ratio of tc and gc to start can work, corruption only comes about if the heads of the pyramid are bent aswell but i still believe that as communities we have grown up and would never want to see the past history to come into our present or future but for what it is worth this is my humble opinion.

[insan]

My good friend insan,

paranoid springs to mind but maybe cautious also could be right.
This notion of no trust to the other side is due to our previous history but since then many of us have grown up and matured, and all these soilders etc. only serve one purpose and that is to show our distrust in the other, with such a stance how can we hope to ever make peace.

An international force with a 50-50 ratio of tc and gc to start can work, corruption only comes about if the heads of the pyramid are bent aswell but i still believe that as communities we have grown up and would never want to see the past history to come into our present or future but for what it is worth this is my humble opinion.

Brother, mine is not related lack of confidence to other side. It is a fact that 10-15 percent of each side comprise of ultra-nationalist. There will at least be couple of 10.000s who won't be satisfied with what the solution will bring them. At least %20-25 of each side's ultra nationalists, self-interest groups will use every opportunity to undermine the United Cyprus. My concerns are about both sides ultra-nationalists and self-interest groups, not just about other side.

[brother]

Insan gardas i never said it will be easy and we will have a LOT of ups and downs but i cannot and will not accept that 25% of the population should be allowed to keep this fruitless situation alive and going to line their own greedy little pockets at the expense of peace and prosperity in our home land.

So maybe we may have civil unrest because of the nationalists from both sides but in time they will be beaten.

If this situation continues we will lose so badly there will be no coming back and while writing this a old cypriot saying sprang to mind: "Fruitless trees get stoned"