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[Murtaza]

I think both of you are genetically fasist.

Gens are not important my friends. Turks, Greek, Armenians may have same gens. But That is not important. Dont intrest it much. If a greek or armenian attack anatolia, I dont care if we have some gens or not.
And I am sure, They wont care it too.

[YeReVaN]

I think both of you are genetically fasist.

Gens are not important my friends. Turks, Greek, Armenians may have same gens. But That is not important. Dont intrest it much. If a greek or armenian attack anatolia, I dont care if we have some gens or not.
And I am sure, They wont care it too.

Here you go with your stupid comments again. If you have nothing wise to say, don't say anything at all.

[hayamol]

The Armenian Genocide is a historical fact. Whether some more academics have a gander at the turkish archives (or whatever is considered suitable) won't change anything, as many turkish academics as well as turkish-bought academics have already 'studied' the Turkish archives.

Accepting to 'study' the situation is admitting that there exists a controversy - or 'two-sides' to the story.

There isn't.

There's simply 1) fact - and 2) those who use every means of persausion necessary to deny that fact.

Armenian, American, German, British & French archives have been open a long time and those claiming that the armenian archives are not open have certainly missed some important 'episodes' either willingly or due to their ignorance of educating themselves about the matter and not relying to the brain washing propaganda by their truth denyer fascist leaderships (fascist as it was admitted by another denier of the truth on a previous post) . My advice to truth deniers is better get well informed before starting to post on forums and making a fool out ouf yourselves and those who you represent.

The Armenian archives related to the genocide period have always been open to Turkish and other foreign researchers and they always will. Any Turkish scholar can have unfettered access to its approximately 12,000 genocide-related documents. Most of them contain information on tens of thousands of genocide survivors that found refuge in Armenia between 1915 and 1918. Many foreign scholars have used them to date and none of them was Turkish.
The reason for that is more simple than one might think. There are no people in Turkey who can work with these archives as there is no Turkish scholar who speaks Armenian. That is the main obstacle. These are not my words, but the words of Turkyilmaz who is a turkish scholar currently studying freely the Armenian archives in Yerevan, as part of his research on his Ph. D. thesis in history at the University of North Carolina.
On a recent interview to an Armenian news agency he stated “Interestingly, people in Turkey believe that Armenia’s archives are closed, especially for Turkish citizens,” says Turkyilmaz. “That is not true. Here I am easily working with them.” Therefore i ask you to stop with this fairy-tale unless if you want to name your own Turkish scholar as a liar. I have to mention here that it certainly pleases me that not all turks are self centered liars or brain washed tools of turkish political propaganda in falsifications of proven facts. Among other things in his interview he also stated "Sadly young people in Turkey know nothing about the subject. All they know are nationalist things written in school textbooks. And because they lack that knowledge, they believe that the Armenians are plotting bad things against their country."

Well... I would say that what we are seeing on this forum so far is a verification of Turkyilmaz's statement.

the interview is mentioned in the turkish news website http://www.turkishdigest.com/archive/20 ... chive.html
which in turn links to http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniare ... D83278.ASP

Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey has recently proposed to the Armenian leadership to form a joint study in order to look further into the history of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during WW1.

My question is:

Why had they refused up until now to allow international academics and credible historians to study the archives? Only now they have nothing to hide? Something smells rotten here.

Among the smearing documents of the Turkish government, there is the order from Interior Minister Talaat to the governor of Aleppo, which after the defeat of Turkey in 1918 was found and published 7. Among these documents the following telegraph is found:

“To the Governor of Aleppo,

We have earlier notified you that the government has decided to annihilate the Armenians in Turkey. Those who oppose this order can no longer be members of the government. Regardless to women, children or invalids, regardless to how terrifying or regretful these massacres than they are and regardless to the sound of your consciousness, the Armenians must be exterminated…”

September 15, 1915, Interior Minister Talaat

more detailed view of the telegram from an independent source which serves no Armenian or Turkish interests can be found here

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/arm ... orders.htm

No excuses or lies can deny the existence of such a document and evidence.

I would conclude saying that the Armenian Genocide is a historical fact intensively studied and proven by many independent historians wordlide. The reason of its denial is purely political. My personal opinion is that a worldwide recognition is only a matter of the next few years. Those who blindly deny it should do their research over the matter before posting some B.S. on forums backed with no facts or reference.

[YeReVaN]

The Armenian Genocide is a historical fact. Whether some more academics have a gander at the turkish archives (or whatever is considered suitable) won't change anything, as many turkish academics as well as turkish-bought academics have already 'studied' the Turkish archives.

Accepting to 'study' the situation is admitting that there exists a controversy - or 'two-sides' to the story.

There isn't.

There's simply 1) fact - and 2) those who use every means of persausion necessary to deny that fact.

Armenian, American, German, British & French archives have been open a long time and those claiming that the armenian archives are not open have certainly missed some important 'episodes' either willingly or due to their ignorance of educating themselves about the matter and not relying to the brain washing propaganda by their truth denyer fascist leaderships (fascist as it was admitted by another denier of the truth on a previous post) . My advice to truth deniers is better get well informed before starting to post on forums and making a fool out ouf yourselves and those who you represent.

The Armenian archives related to the genocide period have always been open to Turkish and other foreign researchers and they always will. Any Turkish scholar can have unfettered access to its approximately 12,000 genocide-related documents. Most of them contain information on tens of thousands of genocide survivors that found refuge in Armenia between 1915 and 1918. Many foreign scholars have used them to date and none of them was Turkish.
The reason for that is more simple than one might think. There are no people in Turkey who can work with these archives as there is no Turkish scholar who speaks Armenian. That is the main obstacle. These are not my words, but the words of Turkyilmaz who is a turkish scholar currently studying freely the Armenian archives in Yerevan, as part of his research on his Ph. D. thesis in history at the University of North Carolina.
On a recent interview to an Armenian news agency he stated “Interestingly, people in Turkey believe that Armenia’s archives are closed, especially for Turkish citizens,” says Turkyilmaz. “That is not true. Here I am easily working with them.” Therefore i ask you to stop with this fairy-tale unless if you want to name your own Turkish scholar as a liar. I have to mention here that it certainly pleases me that not all turks are self centered liars or brain washed tools of turkish political propaganda in falsifications of proven facts. Among other things in his interview he also stated "Sadly young people in Turkey know nothing about the subject. All they know are nationalist things written in school textbooks. And because they lack that knowledge, they believe that the Armenians are plotting bad things against their country."

Well... I would say that what we are seeing on this forum so far is a verification of Turkyilmaz's statement.

the interview is mentioned in the turkish news website http://www.turkishdigest.com/archive/20 ... chive.html
which in turn links to http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniare ... D83278.ASP

Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey has recently proposed to the Armenian leadership to form a joint study in order to look further into the history of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during WW1.

My question is:

Why had they refused up until now to allow international academics and credible historians to study the archives? Only now they have nothing to hide? Something smells rotten here.

Among the smearing documents of the Turkish government, there is the order from Interior Minister Talaat to the governor of Aleppo, which after the defeat of Turkey in 1918 was found and published 7. Among these documents the following telegraph is found:

“To the Governor of Aleppo,

We have earlier notified you that the government has decided to annihilate the Armenians in Turkey. Those who oppose this order can no longer be members of the government. Regardless to women, children or invalids, regardless to how terrifying or regretful these massacres than they are and regardless to the sound of your consciousness, the Armenians must be exterminated…”

September 15, 1915, Interior Minister Talaat

more detailed view of the telegram from an independent source which serves no Armenian or Turkish interests can be found here

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/arm ... orders.htm

No excuses or lies can deny the existence of such a document and evidence.

I would conclude saying that the Armenian Genocide is a historical fact intensively studied and proven by many independent historians wordlide. The reason of its denial is purely political. My personal opinion is that a worldwide recognition is only a matter of the next few years. Those who blindly deny it should do their research over the matter before posting some B.S. on forums backed with no facts or reference.

BRAVO

[YeReVaN]

I have another question, Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey has recently proposed to the Armenian leadership to form a joint study in order to look further into the history of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during WW1. If he was so serious, why did he refuse to to meet with President Rober Kocharyan in Warshaw? His excuse was he got mad because the day before, President Robert Kocharyan during his speech, urged 46 learders of countries to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide. Turkey is playing games. The reason he proposed the joint study was to show the EU leaders that they are a democratic country. In other words to please EU. Because he knows that sooner or later the genocide issue would be mentioned during the delibiration. And if such a study would of taken place Turkey would say to EU don't bother us, we will handle it ourselves. Armenia knows that very well. That's why Robert Kocharian said that the historian and academics have alrady studied the issue very well and they have confirmed that it is infact a GENOCIDE. Interestingly, turkish people are under the impression that Turkey has offres a joint study and Armenia refused. But they don't know the motives, and they probably don't even know that Erdogan refused to meet me Kocharyan.

[YeReVaN]

EURASIA INSIGHT
TURKEY, ARMENIA MISS OPPORTUNITY FOR RAPPROCHEMENT
6/03/05

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An initiative to promote a thaw in Armenian-Turkish relations appears to have fallen flat. The leaders of the two countries recently exchanged unprecedented diplomatic notes that explored rapprochement possibilities. But the letters did not achieve the desired effect of easing decades of mutual animosity.

The inability of Armenian President Robert Kocharian and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to meet on the sidelines of a Council of Europe summit in Warsaw in mid-May signaled the collapse of the rapprochement initiative.

Erdogan reportedly refused to meet Kocharian because of the latter’s renewed calls during the summit for international recognition of the 1915-1923 slaughter of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide. Turkey vehemently denies that the mass killings constituted a genocide, insisting that Ottoman Armenians died in much smaller numbers and mainly as a result of civil strife.

Erdogan responded angrily to Kocharian’s statements at the summit. "Turkey cannot accept such baseless allegations," he told a separate news conference in the Polish capital.

Armenia scoffed at the criticism of Turkish leaders, with Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian saying that policy makers in Ankara "naively" thought that Kocharian himself would request a meeting with Erdogan. Oskanian additionally accused the Turkish leadership of insincerity, alleging that Ankara never had any intention of altering its policy position.

"As a result of wrong Turkish calculations, the more or less favorable atmosphere created by the exchange of letters was spoiled," Oskanian told Armenian state television on May 20. "We took a step backward in Turkish-Armenian relations because of the Turks."

Erdogan wrote to Kocharian in April suggesting that the two countries, which have no diplomatic relations, set up a commission of historians that would look into the 1915 events and determine whether they were indeed a genocide. The unusual move came ahead of the April 24 worldwide ceremonies commemorating the 90th anniversary of the start of mass killings and deportations. It was welcomed by the United States and some European leaders.

But Kocharian effectively rejected the idea, contending that the Armenian genocide was already an established fact. At the same time, he called for the creation of an Armenian-Turkish inter-governmental commission that would discuss all issues of mutual concern, including the genocide controversy.

In response to Kocharian’s offer, Turkish officials suggested that the two contending proposals could be combined. "On the one hand, political relations could be established," Erdogan said in a newspaper interview on April 29. "On the other hand, the work (on the historical archives) could continue."

As leaders of the two countries engaged in political maneuvering in late April and early May, speculation mounted that Kocharian and Erdogan might hold their first-ever face-to-face meeting during the Warsaw summit May 16-17. As it turned out, however, the parties did not even come close to achieving a breakthrough in Warsaw.

Erdogan made clear afterward that a pre-condition for rapprochement between Yerevan and Ankara was a settlement between Armenia and Azerbaijan of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. Turkey maintains an economic embargo against Armenia as part of an effort to provide diplomatic support for Azerbaijan during the search for a lasting Karabakh peace deal. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive].

The Turkish prime minister also called on Armenia to halt efforts to secure international recognition for the 1915-23 events as genocide. The Turkish daily Zaman reported on May 31 that Ankara plans no further diplomatic initiatives on the Armenian front.

The Armenian leadership, for its part, insists that the two nations must establish diplomatic relations, and that Ankara must lift the embargo against Armenia, before the two governments can tackle contentious issues.

As Armenia and Turkey explored the rapprochement, the United States remained diplomatically inactive, according to an Armenian source privy to Turkish-Armenian dealings. US officials reportedly didn’t offer to broker direct discussions between Kocharian and Erdogan in Warsaw, dashing all hopes for such a meeting.

"The Bush administration has a long list of priorities when it comes to Turkey, and I’m afraid that Armenian issues are the bottom of that list," David Phillips, a renowned scholar who chaired the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC), said in a recent interview. TARC was a US-sponsored panel of retired diplomats and pundits that operated between 2001-2004 to promote reconciliation.

Perhaps TARC’s important accomplishment during was a study jointly commissioned by its Turkish and Armenian members from the International Center for Transitional Justice (ICTJ), a New York-based human rights organization. The ICTJ concluded in a 2003 report that the massacres of Ottoman Armenians technically fit the definition of genocide set by a 1948 UN convention. However, the ICTJ report also stressed that the 1948 Convention’s provisions did not allow "retroactive application" to events that occurred prior to the treaty’s adoption. Thus, Armenians could not use the convention to claim any material compensation from modern-day Turkey.

At present, Turkey is facing strong pressure from the European Union as Ankara prepares to open accession talks with the bloc in October. France, for example, wants the genocide issue to be on the agenda of those talks, with President Jacques Chirac repeatedly urging Turkey to address its contentious past. [For background information see the Eurasia Insight archive

[Murtaza]

I have another question, Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey has recently proposed to the Armenian leadership to form a joint study in order to look further into the history of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during WW1. If he was so serious, why did he refuse to to meet with President Rober Kocharyan in Warshaw? His excuse was he got mad because the day before, President Robert Kocharyan during his speech, urged 46 learders of countries to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide. Turkey is playing games. The reason he proposed the joint study was to show the EU leaders that they are a democratic country. In other words to please EU. Because he knows that sooner or later the genocide issue would be mentioned during the delibiration. And if such a study would of taken place Turkey would say to EU don't bother us, we will handle it ourselves. Armenia knows that very well. That's why Robert Kocharian said that the historian and academics have alrady studied the issue very well and they have confirmed that it is infact a GENOCIDE. Interestingly, turkish people are under the impression that Turkey has offres a joint study and Armenia refused. But they don't know the motives, and they probably don't even know that Erdogan refused to meet me Kocharyan.

We know it, Thanks for informing us about country.
Look what Erdogan said, If you want to be friend, you wont treat like this.
And main problem is my friend Azeris.

[brother]

So are we all agreed that there was no Armenian genocide and it was all fabrications made up by the Armenian disporia.

[magikthrill]

So are we all agreed that there was no Armenian genocide and it was all fabrications made up by the Armenian disporia.

where did you get that from brother?

[brother]

Just stirring up the Armenian boys