Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

According to some people what Israel is doing right now is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their ancestral lands. It might be true or it might not be true but the fact is nobody can deny the Holocaust, correct? And no matter what happens with Israel today, even if they do ethnic-cleansing, Holocaust will remain as a fact. In other words, whatever Israel does today is irrelevant in terms of the existence of Holocaust. I believe the same logic applies to Armenians.
(I'm not arguing if the Armenian "genocide" happened or not, or if Armenia is right in occupying land. I'm simply pointing out that the two are irrelevant.)

I fully understand where you are going with this and my arguement would be that as Israel suffered the Holocaust they should be at the forfront to condemn that practice not do it themselves, hence it is all connected.

TREAT AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED.......

DO UPON OTHERS AS YOU WOULD DO UPON YOURSELF...........

Two good little phrases full of hints.

[metecyp]

I fully understand where you are going with this and my arguement would be that as Israel suffered the Holocaust they should be at the forfront to condemn that practice not do it themselves, hence it is all connected.

I agree that Holocaust survivors in Israel should remember what they went through and not do the same thing to others, so in that sense yes, they're connected.

However, when you talk about if something exists or not (Holocaust, "Armenian genocide"), all that matters is what happened during WW2 or what happenned during 1914-1915. Even if Armenians do ethnic cleansing in Azerbaycan today, does that change the past if such a genocide happenned? I don't think so.

[brother]

However, when you talk about if something exists or not (Holocaust, "Armenian genocide"), all that matters is what happened during WW2 or what happenned during 1914-1915. Even if Armenians do ethnic cleansing in Azerbaycan today, does that change the past if such a genocide happenned? I don't think so.

No one can take away what a people suffered but you can not ride the high moral ground if in the present you are commiting the same atrocities.
As such their claim for genocide would not fall on so many deaf ears if they were not being as savage as the past savages they supposedly suffered.

[turkcyp]

According to some people what Israel is doing right now is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their ancestral lands. It might be true or it might not be true but the fact is nobody can deny the Holocaust, correct? And no matter what happens with Israel today, even if they do ethnic-cleansing, Holocaust will remain as a fact. In other words, whatever Israel does today is irrelevant in terms of the existence of Holocaust. I believe the same logic applies to Armenians.
(I'm not arguing if the Armenian "genocide" happened or not, or if Armenia is right in occupying land. I'm simply pointing out that the two are irrelevant.)

Is what Israel doing a form of ethnic cleansing? Depends on how you define ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing from one region by pushing them to another region YES, ethnic cleansing from the face of the world by killing. DON’T THINK SO.

And who said that nobody denies holocaust? I don’t but I certainly know people who does, and they have every right to believe whatever they want and at the same time express those opinions.

The two becomes very relevant if one side is doing the atrocities in response or in revenge of the other previous atrocities. In Israel’s case it is true they are not relevant because holocaust is not performed by Arabs, although I know also some people who claim that Third Reich has been financed by Arabs.

But in the case of Armenians, I can not be so sure about that. Why did not Armenians not attack Georgia and occupy Georgia but instead choose to attack and occupy Azerbaijan. I am not saying that they are definitely related but it is a known fact of Turk hate presumably due to “Genocide”. So is this occupation an act of revenge or not. If it is the two definitely becomes related.

[metecyp]

But in the case of Armenians, I can not be so sure about that. Why did not Armenians not attack Georgia and occupy Georgia but instead choose to attack and occupy Azerbaijan.

I don't know too much about the issue but I believe there's an ethnic Armenian minority in Karabag region of Azerbaycan compromising 75% of the total population of Karabag and Armenia occupied to protect those, as the story goes.

Anyway, I just wanted to keep the topic on track. I still believe that if we want to find out if a genocide happenned in 1915, then we only have to look at the facts in 1915. Even if we accept that Armenian invasion of Karabag is relevant, it doesn't change what happenned in 1915. Same with Israel. Let's assume that Israel's policy against Arabs is Holocaust II. (this time Jews are Nazis and Arabs are Jews). Does this change the fact that Holocaust I happened where Jews sufferred immensely under Nazis? No it doesn't. So I don't see the relevance still if you're trying to establish whether Holocaust I happenned or not.

Again, I'm not suggesting what happenned in 1915 is genocide but rather trying to keep the topic on track by pointing out what's relevant before getting into other topics. I think that's all I'll say on this topic.

[turkcyp]

I got your point Metecyp (even at the first post)

You are simply saying that Armenia in Azerbaijan is another topic because it does not relate to "Genocide" issue. AS I have said you may be right and you may also be wrong. If attocities commited in Azerbaijan is done beacuse of revenge than it is related to the topic.

Plus existence of Armenian minority in Karabag region does not justify the attrocities in Azerbaijan, same way existence of Armenian revolt against Ottoman Empire during Russian war, does not justify plight of innocent Armenians during those times.

Anwyay you are right though. It probably would be better if we open another topic for this.

[Dawn]

Dawn,

i dont trust too many sites coz they give a bias view as im sure you are aware. What is an independant unbiased site, and yes your understanding of these events might be an easy start point.

If you wish to learn about our plight there is a book written by a fleet street journalist, Harry Scott Gibbons. The book's title is:

"The Genocide Files"

Thank you for the book, I checked my university library yesterday, they didn't have it. But amazon does... I would love to be more informed on the Cyprus issue. I'll probably get it from amazon aftert I'm done with my finals.


And here is a good read on the genocide: "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story" by Hentry I Morgenthau. He was the U.S. ambassador to the Ottoman Empire under Woodrow Wilson from 1913 to 1916. He wrote about what he saw, and what was happening at the time. You can find it at amazon, but you can also read it online here.


You guys, the Karabakh issue has nothing to do with the genocide of 1915. Let's keep this thread focused on the Armenian genocide. If you want, go ahead and open a new thread about Karabakh, and I would participate in it too...

[turkcyp]

.........

Welcome back actually,

For a period, I thought you have left the forum because of me questioning how did you hear about the forum. I hope no hard feelings for that.

Take care,

[garbitsch]

Dawn,

i dont trust too many sites coz they give a bias view as im sure you are aware. What is an independant unbiased site, and yes your understanding of these events might be an easy start point.

If you wish to learn about our plight there is a book written by a fleet street journalist, Harry Scott Gibbons. The book's title is:

"The Genocide Files"

Thank you for the book, I checked my university library yesterday, they didn't have it. But amazon does... I would love to be more informed on the Cyprus issue. I'll probably get it from amazon aftert I'm done with my finals.


And here is a good read on the genocide: "Ambassador Morgenthau's Story" by Hentry I Morgenthau. He was the U.S. ambassador to the Ottoman Empire under Woodrow Wilson from 1913 to 1916. He wrote about what he saw, and what was happening at the time. You can find it at amazon, but you can also read it online here.


You guys, the Karabakh issue has nothing to do with the genocide of 1915. Let's keep this thread focused on the Armenian genocide. If you want, go ahead and open a new thread about Karabakh, and I would participate in it too...

I am not surprised if there are no scholars in USA who are against the genocide. After all, the professor Stanford Shaw's house in CA was bombed by Armenian terrorists. That's why he had to leave the country.

[Dawn]

I am not surprised if there are no scholars in USA who are against the genocide. After all, the professor Stanford Shaw's house in CA was bombed by Armenian terrorists. That's why he had to leave the country.

Oh please, so all the scholars and historians who have given numerous speeches and written books on the genocide did it so they won't get bombed???!!! All the 126 Holocaust scholars were scared of getting bombed? How about the member of International Association of Genocide Scholars? They too, were scared of getting bombed? And for your information, these weren't only Americans. See, you're not making sense again! Lack of "critical thinking" is all I have to say about your post.