Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Schroeder: Opposition push for Armenian massacre recognition won't become EU
condition

AP Worldstream
Apr 29, 2005


German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on Friday sought to assure Turkey
that a German opposition push for Turkey to examine its role in the
massacre of Armenians at the time of World War I will not become a
condition to the start EU membership talks this October.

Schroeder, who is to visit Turkey next week, is a strong supporter of
this mainly Muslim country's EU bid. There have been concerns that a
recent slowdown in the pace of Turkish reforms might derail the talks.

"Both sides have to put what they said into practice," Schroeder said.

Schroeder also sought to calm Turkish concerns that its refusal to
recognize the mass killings of Armenians as genocide could upset its
bid.

Germany's conservative opposition, which is cool toward Turkey's EU
bid, earlier this year submitted a parliamentary motion calling for
Turkey to examine its role in the Armenian deaths.

But Schroeder said: "We said that this will in no way be a new
condition. ... This is the job of historians."

Armenians accuses Turkey of genocide in the killings of up to 1.5
million Armenians as part of a 1915-23 campaign to force them out of
eastern Turkey. But Turkey denies that the killings were genocide and
says the death count is inflated.

[insan]

Azeri People Does Not Want War Against Armenia

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:01:09 -0700 (PDT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AZERI PEOPLE DOES NOT WANT WAR AGAINST ARMENIA

YEREVAN, APRIL 29. ARMINFO. "Azeri people does not want a war against
Armenia yet", Head od conflict-science and migration department of
Baku Peace and Democracy Institution Arif Yunusov expressed such an
opinion in an interview to journalists in Yerevan. He participates at
"Caucasus 2004" International conference started today in Yerevan.

Yunusov noted that about 40% of Azeri people are the adherents and 30%
the opponents of the war, and the rest 30% are undecided. "When they
have their position, it will be clear whether the war is be or not. It
is most likely that we will have a Cyprus variant "neither war nor
peace", he noted. At the same time, Yunusov did not excluded that some
political forces may use the Karabakh issue to achieve their own
purposes. He noted the activated from Feb 2005 skirmishes at
contact-line resulted to death of about 50 people of both sides.

"The main trouble of both Armenian and Azeri people is that every one
wants the "fair" peace but in its own good, which is, certainly does
not coincide with the other's point of view. In fact, we have a choice
between bad and the worst peace, However, we have even not reached
it", Yunusov noted. He also stressed the necessity to create the
atmosphere of confidence and to establish contacts between the
people. "Absence of contacts is a big shortcoming", Yunusov concluded.

[Dawn]

Again you confuse the self-seeker politicians of those countries with the scholars and historians. Tell me a few Russian, Pollish, Greek, Dutch, Lebanese etc historians and scholars who have studies about the so-called Armenian genocide.

Perhaps this will suffice:
On April 6, genocide scholars called on Turkey to end the denial of the Armenian genocide.
So what now? The International Association of Genocide Scholars are "bought politicians" too?

Here is the full text:

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GENOCIDE SCHOLARS

President: Robert Melson (USA)
Vice-President: Israel Charny (Israel)
Secretary-Treasurer: Steven Jacobs (USA)

Respond to: Robert Melson, Professor of Political Science Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907 USA


April 6, 2005


Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
TC Easbakanlik
Bakanlikir
Ankara, Turkey
FAX: 90 312 417 0476

Dear Prime Minister Erdogan:

We are writing you this open letter in response to your call for an “impartial study by historians” concerning the fate of the Armenian people in the Ottoman Empire during World War I.

We represent the major body of scholars who study genocide in North America and Europe. We are concerned that in calling for an impartial study of the Armenian Genocide you may not be fully aware of the extent of the scholarly and intellectual record on the Armenian Genocide and how this event conforms to the definition of the United Nations Genocide Convention. We want to underscore that it is not just Armenians who are affirming the Armenian Genocide but it is hundreds of independent scholars, who have no affiliations with governments, and whose work spans many countries and nationalities and the course of decades. The scholarly evidence reveals the following:

On April 24, 1915, under cover of World War I, the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire began a systematic genocide of its Armenian citizens – an unarmed Christian minority population. More than a million Armenians were exterminated through direct killing, starvation, torture, and forced death marches. Another million fled into permanent exile. Thus an ancient civilization was expunged from its homeland of 2,500 years.

The Armenian Genocide was the most well-known human rights issue of its time and was reported regularly in newspapers across the United States and Europe. The Armenian Genocide is abundantly documented by thousands of official records of the United States and nations around the world including Turkey’s wartime allies Germany, Austria and Hungary, by Ottoman court-martial records, by eyewitness accounts of missionaries and diplomats, by the testimony of survivors, and by decades of historical scholarship.

The Armenian Genocide is corroborated by the international scholarly, legal, and human rights community:

1) Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin, when he coined the term genocide in 1944, cited the Turkish extermination of the Armenians and the Nazi extermination of the Jews as defining examples of what he meant by genocide.

2) The killings of the Armenians is genocide as defined by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

3) In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars, an organization of the world’s foremost experts on genocide, unanimously passed a formal resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide.

4) 126 leading scholars of the Holocaust including Elie Wiesel and Yehuda Bauer placed a statement in the New York Times in June 2000 declaring the “incontestable fact of the Armenian Genocide” and urging western democracies to acknowledge it.

5) The Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide (Jerusalem), the Institute for the Study of Genocide (NYC) have affirmed the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

6) Leading texts in the international law of genocide such as William A. Schabas’s Genocide in International Law (Cambridge University Press, 2000) cite the Armenian Genocide as a precursor to the Holocaust and as a precedent for the law on crimes against humanity.

We note that there may be differing interpretations of genocide - how and why the Armenian Genocide happened, but to deny its factual and moral reality as genocide is not to engage in scholarship but in propaganda and efforts to absolve the perpetrator, blame the victims, and erase the ethical meaning of this history.

We would also note that scholars who advise your government and who are affiliated in other ways with your state-controlled institutions are not impartial. Such so-called “scholars” work to serve the agenda of historical and moral obfuscation when they advise you and the Turkish Parliament on how to deny the Armenian Genocide.

We believe that it is clearly in the interest of the Turkish people and their future as a proud and equal participant in international, democratic discourse to acknowledge the responsibility of a previous government for the genocide of the Armenian people, just as the German government and people have done in the case of the Holocaust.

Sincerely,

[signed]
Robert Melson
Professor of Political Science
President, International Association of Genocide Scholars

[signed]
Israel Charny
Vice President, International Association of Genocide Scholars
Editor in Chief, Encyclopedia of Genocide

[signed]
Peter Balakian
Donald M. and Constance H. Rebar Professor of the Humanities
Colgate University

[insan]

I asked you what studies those Pollish, Lebanese, Hellene, Belgian proffessors and scholars have about alleged Armenian Genocide; you copied and pasted a letter to me?

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/art-West-Accounts.htm


Now I'm asking to you to show me the genocide studies of at least 5 scholars and professors from each of those countries that recognized the alleged genocide.

This greedy capitalist world is revolving around interests of self-seekers.

[insan]

We would also note that scholars who advise your government and who are affiliated in other ways with your state-controlled institutions are not impartial. Such so-called “scholars” work to serve the agenda of historical and moral obfuscation when they advise you and the Turkish Parliament on how to deny the Armenian Genocide.

Theirs are impartial angels, Turkish ones are government sponsored puppets work to serve the agenda of Turkey.

No, actually theirs are puppets of greedy capitalist masters who have interests on Turkey, middle east and far east. They are exerting huge effort to build the kingdom of their masters, aka one world government. Of course as all others; local, capitalist Armenian masters ask their share, too. They didn't do it with Sevre but still exerting hard to achieve it. This greediness will soon lead the whole world into a new war. Then the lucky ones will witness the great disaster and sufferings of the man kind.

[garbitsch]

Armenian "genocide" thing was first voiced by French and British to justify the invasion of Eastern Anatolia. The Greek claim of "Greek and Pontian Greek genocides" were also made up by the "winning powers" of WW1 to justify the Greek claims in Western Anatolia and Black sea region of Turkey. Why did UK cease its Armenian genocide claim? Why did France recognise it 90 years later?

[gabaston]

Dawn

Thank you for brining our attention your concerns. Mass murder, ethnic cleansing, genocide are un-tolerable, even more so when totally unprovoked and by a Govt of the UN, and should be brought to account wherever possible.

I was wondering therefore is there an Armenian forum site where we can publicly display our more recent evidences of the mass graves, murders of inoccent women and children, that Turkish Cypriots suffered under The Makarios regime.

Your people may like to read of the Akritas plan (details of how our genocide was to be carried out). It outlines how Turkish Cypriots would be ethnically cleansed in similar fashion to the events of the Kristallnacht brutalities carried out by the Nazis on its Jewish population.

I hope you agree we me that all atrocitities of the twentieth century can be brought out in the open and their perpetrators be brought to account, so that we may show the entire world that these actions will no longer go un-punished.

History unfortunately tells us a different story. Even after Nuremburg, Orthodox Christians still attempted the genocide of Moslems in Europe. Molosovitch was punished, those associated with Akritas were not.

I wish you well in bringing genocides out in the open.
Turkish Cypriots know full well its horrors. They lived under its threat, from the Govt of Archbishop Makarios for 14 yrs.


I was wondering therefore is there an Armenian forum site where we can publicly display our more recent evidences of the mass graves, murders of innocent women and children, that Turkish Cypriots suffered under The Makarios regime.

[magikthrill]

I was wondering therefore is there an Armenian forum site where we can publicly display our more recent evidences of the mass graves, murders of innocent women and children, that Turkish Cypriots suffered under The Makarios regime.

Gabaston,

heres a link I just found from google

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/

I havent looked at yet. ALso if you decide to join you will probably have to take it mellow cause as someone (whose views I dont agree with except for this one) stated in a previous post most Armenians, for whatever reason, get very defensive when the genocide is denied. This doesnt apply to everyone of course but I've experienced this with most people. Not that Ive ever denied the genocide myself but you know what I'm talking about.

[insan]

http://www.answers.com/topic/armenian-massacres


Just one of the tragedies of man kind occured during ww1. Who warred with whom and why? Some warred with others for grabbing land and establishing a nation state; some warred to colonize some places that have reach economic resources and geo-strategic importance. Result? Some got what they wanted, some didn't. Losses? Millions of death from both sides.

This is the tragedy of man kind not Armenian Genocide. The bloody game of the "Masters and Pawns". Masters make the plans, pawns put it on scene and the people play it. Now masters have a new game called "new world order" aka "one world government". Masters presented the plan to the pawns just before the ww2. Pawns are racing with each other to serve the master and get what they want. Pawns exploit their own people in order to use all their resources and get more strength in this race. Soon, once again they will go for a war to get what they want. Again, some will get what they want, some will not. This time, they will fight with weapons of mass destruction. This time not millions of people but billions of people will lose their lives.

Masters, pawns and people; they are all digging their own hole. Some are aware of all, some are not. Who will be the scapegoats and responsibles of human losses at the end of the war? Masters and pawns will point the ones they most scare of. They will keep attacking the ones they don't like. they will keep making plans for their self-interests and self-beliefs. The abylon, the neverland; the dirty business of the masters.[/quote]

[unnamedman]

I was wondering therefore is there an Armenian forum site where we can publicly display our more recent evidences of the mass graves, murders of innocent women and children, that Turkish Cypriots suffered under The Makarios regime.

Gabaston,

heres a link I just found from google

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/

I havent looked at yet. ALso if you decide to join you will probably have to take it mellow cause as someone (whose views I dont agree with except for this one) stated in a previous post most Armenians, for whatever reason, get very defensive when the genocide is denied. This doesnt apply to everyone of course but I've experienced this with most people. Not that Ive ever denied the genocide myself but you know what I'm talking about.

i tried that site, i can say this, what ever you show them they say "no, it's not true. it's your story!" if you show them evidences, "no it's not true, these documents are product of you!"

it's just wasting time. don't try to make comunucation. because they aren't friendly!