Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

you are not either. Many of the minorities in the UK existed long before the Ottoman Turkish invadors decided to name themselves "Turkish Cypriot community". Furthermore in democratic countries being indigenous is irrelevant. As long as you have the citizenship you are equal citizen with everybody else.

Which minority in the UK exsisted 450 years ago, could you please list them? not those like us that are considered indigenous.

You are again confusing individual rights with community rights to cloud the real issue that you want to use your numerical advantage to turn me into a minority in a GC state run by GCs, not falling for that one.

Thats a plus for them and a negative for you. Because you could force your way in the 16th century it doesn't mean you can do the same today, it is not the middle ages now.

You appear confused here your saying that being a minority is better than being indigenous, why?

We do not have any "partnership" agreement. Unless you call an agreement that specifies that a Turkish Cypriot should never be allowed to be the president a "partnership" agreement. But if you want to use the "partnership" metaphore, then according to those agreements your minority would appropriately be the "minor partner". But hey, if you want that agreement no problem from our side. It is you that insist violating it.

You have answered your own question to why those agreements are not operative. You do not accept us as partners never have never will.

Nothing was that special about our history. Look elsewhere and you will find tons of multi-ethnic countries where they had conflicts between them, way bloodier also. Furthermore, history is not relevant:

Is there another example exactly the same as Cyprus, if not then we are unique and its that uniqueness that shapes they way we act towards each other, the lack of trust and arrogance that we both think we are right.

So cut the excuses. Your minority is just like every other. The problem we have in Cyprus is that Turkey is violating the sovereignty of our country and your minority is siding with the enemy.

We will do so until we have a structure put before us which will not allow GCs to rule solely where you can use your numerical advantage to take us into situations we do not want to go. eg enosis. The choice is yours.

[Piratis]

450 years ago you were the foreign invadors killing Cypriots by the 10s of thousands. You want a reward for that now?

I can tell you of a minority that existed not 450 years ago but for 1000s years ago, and not only it ruled the place for way longer than you ruled Cyprus, but they are the ones who created most of the cities there: The Greek minority in Turkey.
Does this make the Greek minority in Turkey any more privileged than any other minority in the world?

VP, TCs are just the 18% of the population. That by definition makes them a minority. If they ruled, or if they are "indigenous" or whatever is totally irrelevant. It is laughable to even argue against this.

[oranos64]

450 years ago you were the foreign invadors killing Cypriots by the 10s of thousands. You want a reward for that now?

I can tell you of a minority that existed not 450 years ago but for 1000s years ago, and not only it ruled the place for way longer than you ruled Cyprus, but they are the ones who created most of the cities there: The Greek minority in Turkey.
Does this make the Greek minority in Turkey any more privileged than any other minority in the world?

VP, TCs are just the 18% of the population. That by definition makes them a minority. If they ruled, or if they are "indigenous" or whatever is totally irrelevant. It is laughable to even argue against this.

nice answer ...well said too ...

[Viewpoint]

450 years ago you were the foreign invadors killing Cypriots by the 10s of thousands. You want a reward for that now?

I can tell you of a minority that existed not 450 years ago but for 1000s years ago, and not only it ruled the place for way longer than you ruled Cyprus, but they are the ones who created most of the cities there: The Greek minority in Turkey.
Does this make the Greek minority in Turkey any more privileged than any other minority in the world?

VP, TCs are just the 18% of the population. That by definition makes them a minority. If they ruled, or if they are "indigenous" or whatever is totally irrelevant. It is laughable to even argue against this.

You conveniently avoided all my questions, well done.

Its laughable to you because you want to dismiss our claims to a partnership in a united Cyprus, off course you will laugh things off as seeing and accepting the reality does not suit your ultimate goal of extending control of your GC state over the whole island. Your arguement falls flat as you are only 0.00001% in the EU yet you have the right block decisions that will effect you negatively, thats what we are asking for, to be allowed to stop you repeating the mistakes of the past. Why are you so against this if you are sure you will never take decisions that will hurt or effect the TCs negatively?

[Nikitas]

VP wrote:

"Are those minorities in the UK indigenous? did they ever rule the UK? do they have a partnership agreement like ours eg 1960, did they go though our history? NO. "

Could not let that one go unchallenged!

The minorities everywhere in Europe have very strong protection from the European Convention on Human Rights and from EU legislation (aquis communautaire). If you compare the protection given to minorities under these and what was given the Turkish Cypriots by the 1960 constitution there is no comparison! The 1960 Constituion did not even come up to one tentch of these other guarantees.

But the one thing that is missing from these pieces of legislation is a role for Turkey and a role for Britain to be here and cause bother. And this bother seems to be far more important to some people in this forum than the real welfare and substantial rights of their fellow Turkish Cypriots.

[Piratis]

Can you show me where in the 1960 agreements it talks about "partnership"? I dismiss it simply because there is not such thing.

EU is not a country. If some country doesn't like it in the EU they can simply leave. Do you know any EU country where some ethnic minority has veto rights? I am against it because it is undemocratic. The 9% of the population can not block the decisions that the great majority wants. If you have such power whats going to stop you from using it on anything you feel like, in order to harm us and force the state to dissolve so you can finally achieve your partition aim?
I would accept such thing only if partition would not be beneficial for you, and for that to happen it means that the state controlled by TCs should be less than 18%, say 12%. Otherwise we know your dream very well, so there is no doubt you will use your veto power to create deadlocks and force the state to dissolve and run off with our land.

[Viewpoint]

VP wrote:

"Are those minorities in the UK indigenous? did they ever rule the UK? do they have a partnership agreement like ours eg 1960, did they go though our history? NO. "

Could not let that one go unchallenged!

The minorities everywhere in Europe have very strong protection from the European Convention on Human Rights and from EU legislation (aquis communautaire). If you compare the protection given to minorities under these and what was given the Turkish Cypriots by the 1960 constitution there is no comparison! The 1960 Constituion did not even come up to one tentch of these other guarantees.

But the one thing that is missing from these pieces of legislation is a role for Turkey and a role for Britain to be here and cause bother. And this bother seems to be far more important to some people in this forum than the real welfare and substantial rights of their fellow Turkish Cypriots.

Who applies minority rights? the majority and in our case that would be the GCs who we do not trust to act impartially or fairly thats why we face such a tight bottle neck.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Can you show me where in the 1960 agreements it talks about "partnership"? I dismiss it simply because there is not such thing

Did we have veto rights? that makes us a partner, you have to consult and get our agreement on decisions ıd call that pretty much being an equal partner.

EU is not a country. If some country doesn't like it in the EU they can simply leave.

Its the principle we are talking about, if you feel you could be put in danger by the stronger or larger cojntires/communities you ask for rights to stop them from taking decisions that will influence you differently.

Do you know any EU country where some ethnic minority has veto rights?

Serbia Montenegro, Belgium, Switzerland there are many formulas where the rights of each ethnic community can be protected.

I am against it because it is undemocratic.

Because it doesnt suit you, you want force your will on us, we will never accept that.

The 9% of the population can not block the decisions that the great majority wants.

So if the majority decide to expel the 9% then thats OK or if the majority decide to change the official language thats OK or if the majority want to chnage Cyprus into Greece thats OK, well forget it not going to happen.

If you have such power whats going to stop you from using it on anything you feel like, in order to harm us and force the state to dissolve so you can finally achieve your partition aim?

We do not want veto rights on every decision only those that will effect us negatively, whats so wrong with that?

I would accept such thing only if partition would not be beneficial for you, and for that to happen it means that the state controlled by TCs should be less than 18%, say 12%.

So your aim is to make us suffer? thank you very much.

Otherwise we know your dream very well, so there is no doubt you will use your veto power to create deadlocks and force the state to dissolve and run off with our land.

Total rubbish why would we veto something beneficial for everyone? we are not as stupid as you like to think we are.

[Pyrpolizer]

I don't know for how many times we will have to discuss this minority-majority issue as if the SOLUTION TO BE is a Unitary state run on the principle of one man one vote. Such thing is politically A NON ISSUE today. What we are looking for is a TRUE Federation. In a TRUE Federal system the issues of minority-majority are totally irrelevant at Fed State level.

I don't know how much of a partnership the 1960 constitution was. One of the major things every citizen expects from his Government is to provide for the education of his children. Under the 1960 constitution the Government itself had absolutely no responsibility for that. It was rather the responsibility of the communal assemblies, and we know the TC communal assembly never managed to collect enough money even to pay their own teachers so Turkey was paying their salaries (even between the period of 1960-1963).
In my view a real partnership shouldn't work like that...

[Daemon]

Cyprus belongs to me because I’m Pagan, all the others must be dropped in the sea.