Cyprus-Forum.com

[observer]

I have come to the opinion that if we said yes to tha Annan plan, we may have been in a stronger position. The reason I say this is that many of the provisions of the plan that were questionable under EU law would be challenged in the EU courts. FOr example, the right to property could not just be signed away by writing a letter to the EU commission saying that Cyprus agrees not to take property cases to the Europen Courts! This is just one example.

This bit of mikkie2’s post reminds me of something said to me a few years ago, privately, by a senior UN official – one of the ones with a single number after UN on his number plate. He said that it was very difficult to get TCs to agree to anything (he might have been thinking of Denktas, then in power) but once they agreed to something they regarded the matter as settled. On the other hand, GCs were easier to bring to an agreement, but they only thought of it as a step to reaching their final objective, and would be back the next day saying that circumstances had changed.

You don’t have to believe that this was said to me, but if mikkie2’s comments accurately reflect GC thinking, we could have added 2004 to 1960, 1963 and 1974.

[EPSILON]

Piratis I do not believe in killing anyone and if I had my way I would give back land and property tomorrow but my fear is what will happen to us under a GC administration where the past tells us that GCs are so devious they will twist and turn crushing us under so called EU "norms" excluding us from, you yourself immediately claim that if we were to unite under 1960 agreements your would move to have our rights watered away, this is exactly they type of attitude that prevents us from looking at you as possible partners in a united Cyprus. We need safeguards and heavy preventative measure to ensure you are not allowed to bring us to a position where we will be excluded from running our country, until we find that balance we can stay as we are for many years to come.

Can you believe this guy. They stole our lands, violate our rights and then they say we are the devious ones, so we deserve it

I especially liked the "crushing us under so called EU "norms", part.

Sure, we will "crash" you with EU norms, democracy and human rights. Turks are allergic to these things so terrible things will happen to them and the devious GCs will be responsible

If you think that the EU "norms" are be all and end all then you are every mistaken, go to Poland, Estonia or Romania and see how these "norms" dempcracy and human rights have helped these people, they are open to manipulation and interpretation, and knowing you GCs well you will use every trick in the book to ensure we are excluded from running our country and erasing any clauses which will stop you from reaching your goal of reducing our community rights to nothing. Well hear this we will not let you Akritas 2.

Again you cannot steal what is already yours, we lost 63% of our island you only lost 37%, if you want it back you have to compromise, giving us back the 63%. You OK with that?

OXI OXI OXI WILL BE THE MULTITUDES RESPONCE AGAIN

1.YOU KEEP WHAT YOU GOT ...YOU UP THE FENCES AND WE GET VISITORS PASSES ...ME AND 1000S LIKE ME WILL ASK FOR THIS .... We can both cross borders ,but no more freedom of movement ...no more exploitation of Turkish cyps for cheap labour

2.WE DONT WANT TO SHARE ....THE WEB NERDS HERE ,WHOM MOST LIVE IN THE U.K .Do not speak for us cypriots

The OXI lobby has the power .....

NO MORE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT .. this is our stance and i have lobby ready

Go ahead Ouranos. If one Gc politician find the gourage to sayt such simple things it will take him no more than 3 months to be ellected president.

Many of Gcs in this forum consider that the re unification of the Island is the dream of the majority of Gcs. They are wrong. Is the dream only of these presenting their face through TV and their actual dream is this only-to be allowed to show their faces in TV.

Lets ask the population, even the refugees. Do they want to go back? Of course Yes.However they reply only to the question whether they want to go back. If you add in the question the circumstances under which maybe they can go back, then the yes reply will be limited to 5 per cent.

[Piratis]

observer, I said it many times and I will say it again: The Cyprus problem will be solved when in Cyprus it is applied democracy, human rights and everything else as they are applied in all other democratic countries in the world.

Having the British or the Turks forcing Cypriots with blackmail to accept unfair undemocratic agreements that go against our human righs is not the solution but only part of the problem.

[EPSILON]

observer, I said it many times and I will say it again: The Cyprus problem will be solved when in Cyprus it is applied democracy, human rights and everything else as they are applied in all other democratic countries in the world.

Having the British or the Turks forcing Cypriots with blackmail to accept unfair undemocratic agreements that go against our human righs is not the solution but only part of the problem.

Pirates. I do no know your age however i consider that you studied several historical books either in schooll or otherwise.

Do you remember even one case where an invasion army sign/accept a fair and democratic solution with the loosers of the war without a military power to be involved? Personally I do not know such a case. Therefore what to hell we (Greeks) expecting in this case? Mirracles?

The only thing we can do is to take our decisions to safe what can be safe for us and for our childs.

[oranos64]

Piratis I do not believe in killing anyone and if I had my way I would give back land and property tomorrow but my fear is what will happen to us under a GC administration where the past tells us that GCs are so devious they will twist and turn crushing us under so called EU "norms" excluding us from, you yourself immediately claim that if we were to unite under 1960 agreements your would move to have our rights watered away, this is exactly they type of attitude that prevents us from looking at you as possible partners in a united Cyprus. We need safeguards and heavy preventative measure to ensure you are not allowed to bring us to a position where we will be excluded from running our country, until we find that balance we can stay as we are for many years to come.

Can you believe this guy. They stole our lands, violate our rights and then they say we are the devious ones, so we deserve it

I especially liked the "crushing us under so called EU "norms", part.

Sure, we will "crash" you with EU norms, democracy and human rights. Turks are allergic to these things so terrible things will happen to them and the devious GCs will be responsible

If you think that the EU "norms" are be all and end all then you are every mistaken, go to Poland, Estonia or Romania and see how these "norms" dempcracy and human rights have helped these people, they are open to manipulation and interpretation, and knowing you GCs well you will use every trick in the book to ensure we are excluded from running our country and erasing any clauses which will stop you from reaching your goal of reducing our community rights to nothing. Well hear this we will not let you Akritas 2.

Again you cannot steal what is already yours, we lost 63% of our island you only lost 37%, if you want it back you have to compromise, giving us back the 63%. You OK with that?

OXI OXI OXI WILL BE THE MULTITUDES RESPONCE AGAIN

1.YOU KEEP WHAT YOU GOT ...YOU UP THE FENCES AND WE GET VISITORS PASSES ...ME AND 1000S LIKE ME WILL ASK FOR THIS .... We can both cross borders ,but no more freedom of movement ...no more exploitation of Turkish cyps for cheap labour

2.WE DONT WANT TO SHARE ....THE WEB NERDS HERE ,WHOM MOST LIVE IN THE U.K .Do not speak for us cypriots

The OXI lobby has the power .....

NO MORE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT .. this is our stance and i have lobby ready

Go ahead Ouranos. If one Gc politician find the gourage to sayt such simple things it will take him no more than 3 months to be ellected president.

Many of Gcs in this forum consider that the re unification of the Island is the dream of the majority of Gcs. They are wrong. Is the dream only of these presenting their face through TV and their actual dream is this only-to be allowed to show their faces in TV.

Lets ask the population, even the refugees. Do they want to go back? Of course Yes.However they reply only to the question whether they want to go back. If you add in the question the circumstances under which maybe they can go back, then the yes reply will be limited to 5 per cent.

Exactly reh ,,,i talk to all types of people and i work with stats research people who work with popultation models ... the Greek cyps want peace but under their ideals ,the Turk cyps the same but neither ,when question would really want to live next door to their enemy... the worst scenerio would be another kosovo .

2 every cyp wants to have the money to live happily,invest in their children and live stress free ...money resolves this ...the U.N /solutions lawyers /analysis ...will hang the package over their noses and this will be accepted by the politicians ..who deep down know they cannot meet a agreement

i like many cyps will never get my land back but be compensated ...even if i did i would sell ...famagusta can become a shared town ...but it will become raped and f"""ked by the savages of both communties ..just another ayia napa etc ...

cyprus and the people need the $$$ to invest into their infrastructure ....these things are more important ..education etc ...cyprus is already having a brain drain ...america ,U.K etc ...kids are studying there and staying instead ...this is a worrying trend ..

we need to inject the economy and if things get bad/recession time comes next year ... we will have the billion $$ hang over us for a peace settlement

the only winners are the TRNC ...they get to keep what they stole ...far more land than they were due ,in comparison to population and they get to keep it legitmately thanks to E.U

END OF CHAPTER ...

[phoenix]

I have come to the opinion that if we said yes to tha Annan plan, we may have been in a stronger position. The reason I say this is that many of the provisions of the plan that were questionable under EU law would be challenged in the EU courts. FOr example, the right to property could not just be signed away by writing a letter to the EU commission saying that Cyprus agrees not to take property cases to the Europen Courts! This is just one example.

This bit of mikkie2’s post reminds me of something said to me a few years ago, privately, by a senior UN official – one of the ones with a single number after UN on his number plate. He said that it was very difficult to get TCs to agree to anything (he might have been thinking of Denktas, then in power) but once they agreed to something they regarded the matter as settled. On the other hand, GCs were easier to bring to an agreement, but they only thought of it as a step to reaching their final objective, and would be back the next day saying that circumstances had changed.

You don’t have to believe that this was said to me, but if mikkie2’s comments accurately reflect GC thinking, we could have added 2004 to 1960, 1963 and 1974.

For Humanity it is a good thing to have an inquisitive and challenging mind that's why GCs will constantly try to improve things and not accept unsatisfactory situations as though they had a slave mentality.

My Cyprus political history is weak, but the only time I think the GCs accepted something on the basis that it was to remove an invader (British) with the notion that they could later modify the agreements to improve matters was in 1960.

This might be why it was so important to say NO to the Annan plan . . precisely so that we didn't repeat history by accepting it for the wrong reasons and THEN look to change details.

Just for holding out a bit longer (DELAYED GRATIFICATION) we will end up with all we want for a re-unified island, governed wholly by the RoC.

[oranos64]

observer, I said it many times and I will say it again: The Cyprus problem will be solved when in Cyprus it is applied democracy, human rights and everything else as they are applied in all other democratic countries in the world.

Having the British or the Turks forcing Cypriots with blackmail to accept unfair undemocratic agreements that go against our human righs is not the solution but only part of the problem.

REH TELL ME ONCE ,..WHEN OUR RIGHTS SAVE US OR BENEFITTED US AGAINST THE THEIVES IN THE LAST 10 YEARS ...

WHAT ,WHERE ...REH ME AND THE CYPRUS LOBBY IN THE U.K ..GOT THEIR ADVERTS FOR HOLIDAYS IN NORTH CYPRUS BANNED ETC ...TOOK 1000S OF SINGATURES ,MEETINGS WITH KEN LIVINGSTONE ETC
ANDY LOVE MY EX MP ... ...9 MONTHS LATER OR LESS

TONY BLAIRS COMMITEE FOR EQALITY AND MUCH TRNC $$$ OVER TURNED HIS RULEING

WAKE UP NO 1 CARES FOR OUR VIEWS

THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT ..WE DONT HAVE THE POWER ,NOR THE ALLIES TO HELP US ... WE ARE ALONE ... WE LOST .. WE CANNOT CARRY ON LIKE THIS ..THE E.U ...WILL EVENTUALLY SEE THEM AS THE GOOD GUYS WAKE UP ...

BE HAPPY WHAT WE HAVE ...BECAUSE OF WE DONT UNIFY WE COULD LOOSE IT ALL ...TO OTHER INVADERS FROM THE EAST AND THEIR $$$$$

[observer]

Piratis, I entirely agree with your first paragraph. Unfortunately, in a unified state solution I believe that GCs would use their numerical superiorty to economically attack, if not physically attack TCs.I don't think that your current preident's views have changed much since he co-wrote the Akritas Plan, and GCs keep voting for him and people like him. The safeguards that are required were agreed years ago by Klerides and Denktas - a Bicommunal, Bizonal Federation.

As for your second paragraph, just more of the usual "blame the world for my problems, as it's easier than examining my actions".

[oranos64]

I have come to the opinion that if we said yes to tha Annan plan, we may have been in a stronger position. The reason I say this is that many of the provisions of the plan that were questionable under EU law would be challenged in the EU courts. FOr example, the right to property could not just be signed away by writing a letter to the EU commission saying that Cyprus agrees not to take property cases to the Europen Courts! This is just one example.

This bit of mikkie2’s post reminds me of something said to me a few years ago, privately, by a senior UN official – one of the ones with a single number after UN on his number plate. He said that it was very difficult to get TCs to agree to anything (he might have been thinking of Denktas, then in power) but once they agreed to something they regarded the matter as settled. On the other hand, GCs were easier to bring to an agreement, but they only thought of it as a step to reaching their final objective, and would be back the next day saying that circumstances had changed.

You don’t have to believe that this was said to me, but if mikkie2’s comments accurately reflect GC thinking, we could have added 2004 to 1960, 1963 and 1974.

For Humanity it is a good thing to have an inquisitive and challenging mind that's why GCs will constantly try to improve things and not accept unsatisfactory situations as though they had a slave mentality.

My Cyprus political history is weak, but the only time I think the GCs accepted something on the basis that it was to remove an invader (British) with the notion that they could later modify the agreements to improve matters was in 1960.

This might be why it was so important to say NO to the Annan plan . . precisely so that we didn't repeat history by accepting it for the wrong reasons and THEN look to change details.

Just for holding out a bit longer (DELAYED GRATIFICATION) we will end up with all we want for a re-unified island, governed wholly by the RoC.

YEP AND YEP ... BUT CHECK MY RESPONCE ...

WE SAY OXI but give them recognition ... phoneix ...the U.N plans by annan are sponsorred by the U.S ..and Turkey ...

vote OXI ...

THE U.N plan i quote is the best solution ...

episilon ...check this .... TRNC ...WANT PEACE

NOT 1 MINE OF THEIRS HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THEIR ARMY IN THE GREEN LINE

Green line our side ...nearly all the mines are gone ...

why ....GC ...GOVENMENT .SUCKS UP TO E.U ...AT THE COST OF SAFETY AND PROTECTION OF ITS PEOPLE

SUN TSU - ART OF WAR - NEVER ABANDON YOUR PEOPLE ,FOR IT IS THEY WHO PROTECT YOU ..WITH THEIR SONS,TAXES AND FOOD ...

NATIONAL GUARD AND NATIONAL JOKE ....

[EPSILON]

Piratis, I entirely agree with your first paragraph. Unfortunately, in a unified state solution I believe that GCs would use their numerical superiorty to economically attack, if not physically attack TCs.I don't think that your current preident's views have changed much since he co-wrote the Akritas Plan, and GCs keep voting for him and people like him. The safeguards that are required were agreed years ago by Klerides and Denktas - a Bicommunal, Bizonal Federation.

As for your second paragraph, just more of the usual "blame the world for my problems, as it's easier than examining my actions".

NO SIR, This will not be the case . The reason is simple. Gcs leaders will not have the ability/authority to do anything and they will not want to do anything/the World/times changed.

But the important factor for any solution which can be accepted by Generals (Tcs do not and can not play any role in a solution proposal) is what Annan plan was providing. Full control of Cyprus by mainland Turkey.All the rest and plaims to Gcs for voting no is just a joke.

If someone ask you to sign an authorization to kill him he will not sign of course!!!This what Gcs did-they did not sign their dissapearance from Cyprus .