Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

I am from Baf. I attacked nor hurt any GC, ever. Yet GCs turned against us and we were attacked and chased by GCs. We had to seek shelter and security from GC aggression in enclaves. My father refused longest among the ones in the neighborhood to go into the enclaves but we were forced to or otherwise we would have all been killed by the GCs. In those enclaves we lived for 11 years deprived essentially of everything including medicine for babies. Had Turkey not provided what she did to us during our times inside the enclaves, you would be reading about us in history books - which I am sure the likes of you wouldn`t mind that much. The only way to get out was to accept that my rights given by the Zurich Agreement was vapour. We managed to get out and secure a zone where I nor my family had to look behind when walking on the street afraid that some GC will shoot us. What is "illegal" about us according to you is our very existence in Cyprus.

Oh you hurt absolutely no one. I haven’t hurt anyone either. Tell me why I was chased out of my ancestral lands and why my lands and properties are stolen by you. As for telling me the TCs in Paphos were angels, do you want to start posting stories of the murders and attrocities they did? When AT LAST will you understand your community being the minority raised up AGAINST the majority, just because they felt they had their big brother (Turkey) behind them?

You are trying to equate your condition with ours with total neglect on the sequence of events and existing facts. I was in enclaves before you lost your property. I wasn’t allowed medicine for my children and elderly before you lost your property. I was being murdered and harassed by the contracted murderer you invited from Greece before you lost your property and before any Turkish troop was on the island. If all went on like that, it would have been alright with you. I managed to pull through, I managed to resist and secure my existence on this island – that according to you is “crime”. What is more is that you got compensated for your home – your are living in 26000 GDP per capita, you got millions if not billions of dollars of aid from the EC and the World Bank, you got to eject the TC wing of the RoC from the government, you got to become a “nation” of the RoC where you navigated her to turn against her own people – the TCs. I got nothing for my lost ones (oh I am sorry – Makarios did apologize in front of the world so I guess that takes care of that) and what you stole from me. You are the aggressor trying to play the victim here. Putting up a stiff fight against the attack you launched is what you expect me to feel bad about. You can sell that in Brussells and New York where the political interests of some might be aligned with your criminal activities but it just won’t work with us, the TCs, that went through the devastation you caused to achieve your racist and hegemonic agenda.

You were forced into enclaves allright. Why haven’t you thought about it when you revolted against the majority, when even from the 50s you sided with the enemy, when you became their policemen, when you became the executioners of those who were fighting for their liberation?

The “liberation” you are talking about was handing this island over to Greece with anything and anyone that went with it. This effort was initiated by you when no TC was fighting for uniting with Turkey. In response to your undertaking we resisted. Would you have fought with us against the British if we launched an offensive to unite with Turkey back than? You need to get your facts straight.

As for being deprived of medicines inside the enclaves you yourselves created, that WAS NOT the point of my question. I was CLEARLY referring to the effects of your so called "isolation" in the occupied areas. You LIED in your answer nd you know it.

I lied about nothing. You are just running around like a headless chicken with frustration because you didn’t expect the reality to hit you this hard. What I stated and what is exactly true word for word is that with the embargo being inflicted we can not buy/get even medicine for our babies or aspirin for our elderly directly from the rest of the world. This has been the case when we were inside the enclaves and this is the case today. All that we can get is all that Turkey helps us to acquire via Turkey. This is “usually” not financially viable unless Turkey subsidizes the merchandise. What you want is this to stop as well so we can starve to succumbing to your criminal demands. For not starving we have to apologize and stop our crime of not starving right?

You are stating the damage you have inflicted (so proudly); (**1) I have told you how we are trying to pull through (via Turkey). Of course we have medicine, of course we have Mercedes (**2 )- hell, I just told you myself that we have more than Bulgaria and Romania. (**3 )This is because to your greatest inconvenience we have to survive and Turkey is helping us have them. We have them not because we are allowed to have them but because we can get them (only) via Turkey - huge difference. (**4 )If it was up to you, we wouldn`t/shouldn`t be getting them at all. In fact this is what the criminal GC administration`s international policy has been essentially built around for the past 44 years: (**5 ) starve the TCs to succumbing. So get this straight: we are succeeding in terms of our survival and economy in spite of your crimes and theft. (**6 )

No one will sell or buy anything directly to or from us; even medicine for babies or aspirin for elderly. (**7 )This was the situation when we were in the enclaves and it still is. All merchandise and purchases have to go through Turkey as if the trade is done with her. Of course this "usually" is not economically viable and outweighs the trade benefit unless Turkey subsidizes the good - as with the medicine. The fact that you don`t like the answer doesn`t make it any less true. The chilling deprivation of the TCs from all goods has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property. This inhumane deprivation has been used against the TCs as a weapon to force us into giving up our rights. (**8 ) It has not worked and it will not work.

1)The damage is inflicted by YOU on YOURSELVES by your continuing illegalities and stealing with the support of your Turkish mama. Digest it at last.

The damage is inflicted by you because we have resisted and are resisting ENOSIS, giving up our rights and the Hellenization of this island.

2) The fact that you can still get all your luxuries via Turkey proves that there are no negative effects to your so called "isolation". You have absolutely no problem, the same way Antalya as a province of Turkey doesn’t have any problems either.

No, it does NOT mean that there are "absolutely no problem"s, and I have explained it to you why very clearly in three consecutive posts – do go back and read again. If you can’t handle the answers, don’t ask the questions.

YOU CREATED this situation through your Taksim dreams, you became a PROVINCE of Turkey by using the Turkish lira as your currency. Complain and cry to yourselves, not to us.

What did I create? This one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/6426 of June 1965

"104. The Turkish Cypriot population has continued to be subject to hardships of various kinds, some of them onerous. These include restrictions on the freedom of movement of civilians, economic restrictions, the unavailability of some essential public services, and the sufferings of refugees."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/8286 of December 1967

"126. When disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued in the first part of 1964, thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled from their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in what they considered to be safer Turkish Cypriot villages and areas.
The refusal of the Greek Cypriot authorities to allow the Turkish Cypriot refugees to return to their homes in conditions of safety effectively frustrated persistent Turkish efforts to rehabilitate them. They also obstructed attempts to improve their living conditions"

3)Thank you for admitting your standard of living doubled the last 4 years. Tell me are Bulgaria and Romania selling stolen GC lands as well?

You are welcomed your compensation for your property here anytime of the week. How do you plan to reimburse me for 44 years of embargo, lost property, lost jobs, lost political rights, lost human rights not to mention the lost lives?

5)The only ones who did crimes and theft EXCLUSSIVELY after 1974 is YOU in collaboration with Turkey. Therefore you are responsible for 33 years of EXCLUSSIVE crimes and 11 years of SHARED crimes. Now sum them up and blame the GCs for 44 years. How pathetic!!

Managing to get out of the enclaves is according to you my "crime". My existence in this island according to you is my "crime". Resisting ENOSIS was my "crime". Resisting the Hellenization of this island is my "crime".

6)Thank you once again for admitting your so called "isolation" has absolutely no negative effects. Compared with the benefits you get from stealing and seling other peoples lands and properties, compared ith their ETHNIC CLEANING the very few minimal negative effects you have worth every penny of it, don’t they?

See above.

Inhumane deprivation of one’s rights comes DIRECTLY from YOU against the GC refugees. You cannot expect us to say thank you to you on top of it, do you? You are causing everything and you dare complain of inhumne treatement. How more paranoid can you be?

My point exactly. There was no such thing as "GC refugees" when this embargo began. There were no Turkish troops when this embargo began. There was just a TC community resisting: (1) to have their rights given by the Zurich Agreement taken away from them (2) ENOSIS (3) the attacks of contracted murderers you invited by the thousands from Greece – which your criminal leader apologized for in front of the world. Congratulations, because for resisting these three you have devastated us and along the way made billions of dollars of profit off of our misery.

[MR-from-NG]

I am from Baf. I attacked nor hurt any GC, ever. Yet GCs turned against us and we were attacked and chased by GCs. We had to seek shelter and security from GC aggression in enclaves. My father refused longest among the ones in the neighborhood to go into the enclaves but we were forced to or otherwise we would have all been killed by the GCs. In those enclaves we lived for 11 years deprived essentially of everything including medicine for babies. Had Turkey not provided what she did to us during our times inside the enclaves, you would be reading about us in history books - which I am sure the likes of you wouldn`t mind that much. The only way to get out was to accept that my rights given by the Zurich Agreement was vapour. We managed to get out and secure a zone where I nor my family had to look behind when walking on the street afraid that some GC will shoot us. What is "illegal" about us according to you is our very existence in Cyprus.

Oh you hurt absolutely no one. I haven’t hurt anyone either. Tell me why I was chased out of my ancestral lands and why my lands and properties are stolen by you. As for telling me the TCs in Paphos were angels, do you want to start posting stories of the murders and attrocities they did? When AT LAST will you understand your community being the minority raised up AGAINST the majority, just because they felt they had their big brother (Turkey) behind them?

You are trying to equate your condition with ours with total neglect on the sequence of events and existing facts. I was in enclaves before you lost your property. I wasn’t allowed medicine for my children and elderly before you lost your property. I was being murdered and harassed by the contracted murderer you invited from Greece before you lost your property and before any Turkish troop was on the island. If all went on like that, it would have been alright with you. I managed to pull through, I managed to resist and secure my existence on this island – that according to you is “crime”. What is more is that you got compensated for your home – your are living in 26000 GDP per capita, you got millions if not billions of dollars of aid from the EC and the World Bank, you got to eject the TC wing of the RoC from the government, you got to become a “nation” of the RoC where you navigated her to turn against her own people – the TCs. I got nothing for my lost ones (oh I am sorry – Makarios did apologize in front of the world so I guess that takes care of that) and what you stole from me. You are the aggressor trying to play the victim here. Putting up a stiff fight against the attack you launched is what you expect me to feel bad about. You can sell that in Brussells and New York where the political interests of some might be aligned with your criminal activities but it just won’t work with us, the TCs, that went through the devastation you caused to achieve your racist and hegemonic agenda.

You were forced into enclaves allright. Why haven’t you thought about it when you revolted against the majority, when even from the 50s you sided with the enemy, when you became their policemen, when you became the executioners of those who were fighting for their liberation?

The “liberation” you are talking about was handing this island over to Greece with anything and anyone that went with it. This effort was initiated by you when no TC was fighting for uniting with Turkey. In response to your undertaking we resisted. Would you have fought with us against the British if we launched an offensive to unite with Turkey back than? You need to get your facts straight.

As for being deprived of medicines inside the enclaves you yourselves created, that WAS NOT the point of my question. I was CLEARLY referring to the effects of your so called "isolation" in the occupied areas. You LIED in your answer nd you know it.

I lied about nothing. You are just running around like a headless chicken with frustration because you didn’t expect the reality to hit you this hard. What I stated and what is exactly true word for word is that with the embargo being inflicted we can not buy/get even medicine for our babies or aspirin for our elderly directly from the rest of the world. This has been the case when we were inside the enclaves and this is the case today. All that we can get is all that Turkey helps us to acquire via Turkey. This is “usually” not financially viable unless Turkey subsidizes the merchandise. What you want is this to stop as well so we can starve to succumbing to your criminal demands. For not starving we have to apologize and stop our crime of not starving right?

You are stating the damage you have inflicted (so proudly); (**1) I have told you how we are trying to pull through (via Turkey). Of course we have medicine, of course we have Mercedes (**2 )- hell, I just told you myself that we have more than Bulgaria and Romania. (**3 )This is because to your greatest inconvenience we have to survive and Turkey is helping us have them. We have them not because we are allowed to have them but because we can get them (only) via Turkey - huge difference. (**4 )If it was up to you, we wouldn`t/shouldn`t be getting them at all. In fact this is what the criminal GC administration`s international policy has been essentially built around for the past 44 years: (**5 ) starve the TCs to succumbing. So get this straight: we are succeeding in terms of our survival and economy in spite of your crimes and theft. (**6 )

No one will sell or buy anything directly to or from us; even medicine for babies or aspirin for elderly. (**7 )This was the situation when we were in the enclaves and it still is. All merchandise and purchases have to go through Turkey as if the trade is done with her. Of course this "usually" is not economically viable and outweighs the trade benefit unless Turkey subsidizes the good - as with the medicine. The fact that you don`t like the answer doesn`t make it any less true. The chilling deprivation of the TCs from all goods has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property. This inhumane deprivation has been used against the TCs as a weapon to force us into giving up our rights. (**8 ) It has not worked and it will not work.

1)The damage is inflicted by YOU on YOURSELVES by your continuing illegalities and stealing with the support of your Turkish mama. Digest it at last.

The damage is inflicted by you because we have resisted and are resisting ENOSIS, giving up our rights and the Hellenization of this island.

2) The fact that you can still get all your luxuries via Turkey proves that there are no negative effects to your so called "isolation". You have absolutely no problem, the same way Antalya as a province of Turkey doesn’t have any problems either.

No, it does NOT mean that there are "absolutely no problem"s, and I have explained it to you why very clearly in three consecutive posts – do go back and read again. If you can’t handle the answers, don’t ask the questions.

YOU CREATED this situation through your Taksim dreams, you became a PROVINCE of Turkey by using the Turkish lira as your currency. Complain and cry to yourselves, not to us.

What did I create? This one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/6426 of June 1965

"104. The Turkish Cypriot population has continued to be subject to hardships of various kinds, some of them onerous. These include restrictions on the freedom of movement of civilians, economic restrictions, the unavailability of some essential public services, and the sufferings of refugees."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/8286 of December 1967

"126. When disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued in the first part of 1964, thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled from their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in what they considered to be safer Turkish Cypriot villages and areas.
The refusal of the Greek Cypriot authorities to allow the Turkish Cypriot refugees to return to their homes in conditions of safety effectively frustrated persistent Turkish efforts to rehabilitate them. They also obstructed attempts to improve their living conditions"

3)Thank you for admitting your standard of living doubled the last 4 years. Tell me are Bulgaria and Romania selling stolen GC lands as well?

You are welcomed your compensation for your property here anytime of the week. How do you plan to reimburse me for 44 years of embargo, lost property, lost jobs, lost political rights, lost human rights not to mention the lost lives?

5)The only ones who did crimes and theft EXCLUSSIVELY after 1974 is YOU in collaboration with Turkey. Therefore you are responsible for 33 years of EXCLUSSIVE crimes and 11 years of SHARED crimes. Now sum them up and blame the GCs for 44 years. How pathetic!!

Managing to get out of the enclaves is according to you my "crime". My existence in this island according to you is my "crime". Resisting ENOSIS was my "crime". Resisting the Hellenization of this island is my "crime".

6)Thank you once again for admitting your so called "isolation" has absolutely no negative effects. Compared with the benefits you get from stealing and seling other peoples lands and properties, compared ith their ETHNIC CLEANING the very few minimal negative effects you have worth every penny of it, don’t they?

See above.

Inhumane deprivation of one’s rights comes DIRECTLY from YOU against the GC refugees. You cannot expect us to say thank you to you on top of it, do you? You are causing everything and you dare complain of inhumne treatement. How more paranoid can you be?

My point exactly. There was no such thing as "GC refugees" when this embargo began. There were no Turkish troops when this embargo began. There was just a TC community resisting: (1) to have their rights given by the Zurich Agreement taken away from them (2) ENOSIS (3) the attacks of contracted murderers you invited by the thousands from Greece – which your criminal leader apologized for in front of the world. Congratulations, because for resisting these three you have devastated us and along the way made billions of dollars of profit off of our misery.

If this was a boxing match the result would have been; Knock out in round 3, and the winner is MURATAGA.

[Piratis]

Muratga, I would like to remind you the 4 steps of Turkish propaganda that you practice:

Step 1) Deny every crime the Turks committed against others (Cypriots, Armenians, Kurds etc)

Step 2) Search in history to find some casualties they had from those others. It doesn't matter if for every 1 casualty they had they have caused 1000 on the other side, due to "Step 1" above. After all for them "One Turk equals the whole world"

Step 3) Exaggerate their findings from "Step 2" by a factor of 1000.
Here we see the first interesting results of their propaganda. Some 800 Turks killed in Cyprus is considered a genocide, but 10s of thousands of Cypriots, or 1.5 millions of Armenians that they killed is not, according to their propaganda.

Step 4) Now they determined that they are the innocent ones and the others are the bad ones, they decide that they have the right to use yet more brute force to violate even more the rights of others. If by any chance those others react and cause to the Turks some casualties then the Turkish casualties will be later used in "Step 2", while of course the Turkish aggression that for once more was the cause of the problem will be denied as per "Step 1".

You can talk and talk and talk, but any way that you see it, what you "suffered" from us, a mere decade, and at max 800 casualties, is a drop in the ocean compared to the 10s of thousands of Cypriots that you Turks killed as recently as 1974, and the many decades and centuries that you have oppressed us and violated our rights.

So you can see that 1% of suffering we caused to you and say "GCs are evil and they deserve to be killed and be ethnically cleansed".

But tell me: Why did the UN, that issued those things you selectively choose to post about Cyprus, came up with resolutions condemning the Turkish invasion and demanding the respect of the sovergnity of Cyprus, and declaring as illegal your pseudo state?

I will tell you why: Because unlike you, the UN also knows about the other 99% of the crimes which they were all committed by you against us and this is why there is no single resolution among the 10s of resolutions that where made about Cyprus that Cyprus or Greek Cypriots are condemned.

So when you put everything together, and not just what you selectively choose to present, it is clear who is the guilty side in Cyprus, and that is the Turks, and not the Cypriots.

Here, is the conclusion of the UN about if you are excused to occupy Cyprus or not, and not just some tiny bits that you choose to selectively present:

RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 1771st meeting,
on 20 July 1974



The Security Council,

Having considered the report of the Secretary-General, at its 1779th meeting, about the recent developments in Cyprus,

Having heard the statement of the President of the Republic of Cyprus and the statements of the representatives of Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and other Member States,

Noting also from the report the conditions prevailing in the island,

Deeply deploring the outbreak of violence and the continuing bloodshed,

Gravely concerned about the situation which has led to a serious threat to international peace and security, and which has created a most explosive situation in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area,

Equally concerned about the necessity to restore the constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus, established and guaranteed by international agreements,

Conscious of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in accordance with Article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.

2.Calls upon all parties to the present fighting as a first step to cease all firing and requests all States to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from any action which might further aggravate the situation;

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed;

6. Calls upon all parties to co-operate fully with the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus to enable it to carry out its mandate;

7. Decides to keep the situation under constant review and asks the Secretary-General to report as appropriate with a view to adopting further measures in order to ensure that peaceful conditions are restored as soon as possible.

Adopted unanimously at the 1781st meeting.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

So my friend the conclusion after putting everything together is that you have no excuse to illegally occupy Cyprus.

So no matter how much you can exaggerate those few 100s of casualties that you had, the fact is that you caused 1000s and 10s of thousands of casualties to us, and maybe you can ignore the suffering you caused to us because you want to come to a conclusion that suits you, but as you see if you put everything together the conclusion is exactly the opposite than how you want to present it: You are acting criminally and illegally, and you have no excuse for it.

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer, Phoenix and Get Real,

Get Real, I am sorry that you have such a harsh opinion of my suggestions so far. Perhaps we can reach a mid-level of understanding and agreement, kind of a hybrid, or both of our views. Here's mine in a nutshell: I want nothing more than unificiation, but I believe that the Turkish Cypriots are the wrong people to do business with and Turkey appears to only demand elements of a plan that does not coincide with ours. What would you recommend, and by what means?

Pyrpolizer and Phoenix,
Thank you both for your input, and kind words. In my opinion, if I am not mistaken, I believe that I am probably one of the oldest persons on this forum, unless anyone else can say they were part of the Greek Cypriot demonstrators in London in Agust 1974 - Camden Town? As for my lack of patience, I have been waiting quietly as a father since 1983 - the year that the Turkish Cypriots and Turkey declared their unrecognised successionist state, with only the gradual promotion of their first statehood move. I have seen them grow from being relegated and condemned internationally in 1983, to now being identified as the party that said "Yes" to the last UN Sponsored so-called unification plan. I have seen international based companies work with them under a stealth licence as a province of Turkey, and now we are seeking signs of acknowlowedgment from the OIC, Syria, Azerbaijan and now the UK; in a very sneeky move between Gordon Brown and the Turkish PM.

Ultimately, the basis of my argument is that the U.S, UK, UN and even the EU are hinting that the so-called TRNC may actually be recognised as it stands if a next UN Sponsored unification plan is rejected in the future - And, guess what's in the pipeline, Yes! Another Annan Style plan consisting of a confederal idea with a loose central worthless government and two-component states. Where, one will be Greek Cypriot and the other Turkish Cypriot. Indications of this new process has already started appearing through the cracks - firstly by the U.S who has said that, "The Annan Plan is still on the table, and that all new initiatives will be based on that".

I am not the type of person to ever panic, primarily due to my experience, but the political envrionment has most certainly changed and our government officials appear to be rowing instead of flying!

Why? Because the new Turkish government duo, President and PM, do not give to shakes about the Turkish Cypriot people and are willing to work and sign almost any deal the U.S throws at them in order to resolve the Cyprus issue - that alone gives me a chill; to know that the Turkish president and PM are only interested in the bigger picture of seeing "TURKEY" in the EU, regardless of whom or what is destroyed on the way. Please just look at how they are handling the PKK military-waiting game issue. Almost un-heard-of in Turkish politics.

Kind regards,
Andros Costas

Andros I applaud your intelligence, you have given me hope that at least a few Gcs like you and Bananiot can see the truth of whats happening and not burying your head in the sand like many of the GCs on this forum, well done you are a breath of fresh air, conveying clear arguements of the points and not the usual mud slinging.

[Viewpoint]

I am from Baf. I attacked nor hurt any GC, ever. Yet GCs turned against us and we were attacked and chased by GCs. We had to seek shelter and security from GC aggression in enclaves. My father refused longest among the ones in the neighborhood to go into the enclaves but we were forced to or otherwise we would have all been killed by the GCs. In those enclaves we lived for 11 years deprived essentially of everything including medicine for babies. Had Turkey not provided what she did to us during our times inside the enclaves, you would be reading about us in history books - which I am sure the likes of you wouldn`t mind that much. The only way to get out was to accept that my rights given by the Zurich Agreement was vapour. We managed to get out and secure a zone where I nor my family had to look behind when walking on the street afraid that some GC will shoot us. What is "illegal" about us according to you is our very existence in Cyprus.

Oh you hurt absolutely no one. I haven’t hurt anyone either. Tell me why I was chased out of my ancestral lands and why my lands and properties are stolen by you. As for telling me the TCs in Paphos were angels, do you want to start posting stories of the murders and attrocities they did? When AT LAST will you understand your community being the minority raised up AGAINST the majority, just because they felt they had their big brother (Turkey) behind them?

You are trying to equate your condition with ours with total neglect on the sequence of events and existing facts. I was in enclaves before you lost your property. I wasn’t allowed medicine for my children and elderly before you lost your property. I was being murdered and harassed by the contracted murderer you invited from Greece before you lost your property and before any Turkish troop was on the island. If all went on like that, it would have been alright with you. I managed to pull through, I managed to resist and secure my existence on this island – that according to you is “crime”. What is more is that you got compensated for your home – your are living in 26000 GDP per capita, you got millions if not billions of dollars of aid from the EC and the World Bank, you got to eject the TC wing of the RoC from the government, you got to become a “nation” of the RoC where you navigated her to turn against her own people – the TCs. I got nothing for my lost ones (oh I am sorry – Makarios did apologize in front of the world so I guess that takes care of that) and what you stole from me. You are the aggressor trying to play the victim here. Putting up a stiff fight against the attack you launched is what you expect me to feel bad about. You can sell that in Brussells and New York where the political interests of some might be aligned with your criminal activities but it just won’t work with us, the TCs, that went through the devastation you caused to achieve your racist and hegemonic agenda.

You were forced into enclaves allright. Why haven’t you thought about it when you revolted against the majority, when even from the 50s you sided with the enemy, when you became their policemen, when you became the executioners of those who were fighting for their liberation?

The “liberation” you are talking about was handing this island over to Greece with anything and anyone that went with it. This effort was initiated by you when no TC was fighting for uniting with Turkey. In response to your undertaking we resisted. Would you have fought with us against the British if we launched an offensive to unite with Turkey back than? You need to get your facts straight.

As for being deprived of medicines inside the enclaves you yourselves created, that WAS NOT the point of my question. I was CLEARLY referring to the effects of your so called "isolation" in the occupied areas. You LIED in your answer nd you know it.

I lied about nothing. You are just running around like a headless chicken with frustration because you didn’t expect the reality to hit you this hard. What I stated and what is exactly true word for word is that with the embargo being inflicted we can not buy/get even medicine for our babies or aspirin for our elderly directly from the rest of the world. This has been the case when we were inside the enclaves and this is the case today. All that we can get is all that Turkey helps us to acquire via Turkey. This is “usually” not financially viable unless Turkey subsidizes the merchandise. What you want is this to stop as well so we can starve to succumbing to your criminal demands. For not starving we have to apologize and stop our crime of not starving right?

You are stating the damage you have inflicted (so proudly); (**1) I have told you how we are trying to pull through (via Turkey). Of course we have medicine, of course we have Mercedes (**2 )- hell, I just told you myself that we have more than Bulgaria and Romania. (**3 )This is because to your greatest inconvenience we have to survive and Turkey is helping us have them. We have them not because we are allowed to have them but because we can get them (only) via Turkey - huge difference. (**4 )If it was up to you, we wouldn`t/shouldn`t be getting them at all. In fact this is what the criminal GC administration`s international policy has been essentially built around for the past 44 years: (**5 ) starve the TCs to succumbing. So get this straight: we are succeeding in terms of our survival and economy in spite of your crimes and theft. (**6 )

No one will sell or buy anything directly to or from us; even medicine for babies or aspirin for elderly. (**7 )This was the situation when we were in the enclaves and it still is. All merchandise and purchases have to go through Turkey as if the trade is done with her. Of course this "usually" is not economically viable and outweighs the trade benefit unless Turkey subsidizes the good - as with the medicine. The fact that you don`t like the answer doesn`t make it any less true. The chilling deprivation of the TCs from all goods has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property. This inhumane deprivation has been used against the TCs as a weapon to force us into giving up our rights. (**8 ) It has not worked and it will not work.

1)The damage is inflicted by YOU on YOURSELVES by your continuing illegalities and stealing with the support of your Turkish mama. Digest it at last.

The damage is inflicted by you because we have resisted and are resisting ENOSIS, giving up our rights and the Hellenization of this island.

2) The fact that you can still get all your luxuries via Turkey proves that there are no negative effects to your so called "isolation". You have absolutely no problem, the same way Antalya as a province of Turkey doesn’t have any problems either.

No, it does NOT mean that there are "absolutely no problem"s, and I have explained it to you why very clearly in three consecutive posts – do go back and read again. If you can’t handle the answers, don’t ask the questions.

YOU CREATED this situation through your Taksim dreams, you became a PROVINCE of Turkey by using the Turkish lira as your currency. Complain and cry to yourselves, not to us.

What did I create? This one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/5950 of September 1964

"180. UNIFCYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tyllria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2000 others have suffered damage from looting. ... In many Turkish villages, crowded by the arrival of displaced persons, there is an acute shortage of medical facilities."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/6426 of June 1965

"104. The Turkish Cypriot population has continued to be subject to hardships of various kinds, some of them onerous. These include restrictions on the freedom of movement of civilians, economic restrictions, the unavailability of some essential public services, and the sufferings of refugees."

Or this one?

U.N. Secretary General`s report S/8286 of December 1967

"126. When disturbances broke out in December 1963 and continued in the first part of 1964, thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled from their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in what they considered to be safer Turkish Cypriot villages and areas.
The refusal of the Greek Cypriot authorities to allow the Turkish Cypriot refugees to return to their homes in conditions of safety effectively frustrated persistent Turkish efforts to rehabilitate them. They also obstructed attempts to improve their living conditions"

3)Thank you for admitting your standard of living doubled the last 4 years. Tell me are Bulgaria and Romania selling stolen GC lands as well?

You are welcomed your compensation for your property here anytime of the week. How do you plan to reimburse me for 44 years of embargo, lost property, lost jobs, lost political rights, lost human rights not to mention the lost lives?

5)The only ones who did crimes and theft EXCLUSSIVELY after 1974 is YOU in collaboration with Turkey. Therefore you are responsible for 33 years of EXCLUSSIVE crimes and 11 years of SHARED crimes. Now sum them up and blame the GCs for 44 years. How pathetic!!

Managing to get out of the enclaves is according to you my "crime". My existence in this island according to you is my "crime". Resisting ENOSIS was my "crime". Resisting the Hellenization of this island is my "crime".

6)Thank you once again for admitting your so called "isolation" has absolutely no negative effects. Compared with the benefits you get from stealing and seling other peoples lands and properties, compared ith their ETHNIC CLEANING the very few minimal negative effects you have worth every penny of it, don’t they?

See above.

Inhumane deprivation of one’s rights comes DIRECTLY from YOU against the GC refugees. You cannot expect us to say thank you to you on top of it, do you? You are causing everything and you dare complain of inhumne treatement. How more paranoid can you be?

My point exactly. There was no such thing as "GC refugees" when this embargo began. There were no Turkish troops when this embargo began. There was just a TC community resisting: (1) to have their rights given by the Zurich Agreement taken away from them (2) ENOSIS (3) the attacks of contracted murderers you invited by the thousands from Greece – which your criminal leader apologized for in front of the world. Congratulations, because for resisting these three you have devastated us and along the way made billions of dollars of profit off of our misery.

Murataga excellent post, well done..wait for usual barrage of personal insults and crappy arguements about illegally occupying our own country.

[Piratis]

crappy arguments about illegally occupying our own country

What VP and the Turks consider "crappy argument" while they applaud the crap of some "Murataga":

RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 1771st meeting,
on 20 July 1974



The Security Council,

Having considered the report of the Secretary-General, at its 1779th meeting, about the recent developments in Cyprus,

Having heard the statement of the President of the Republic of Cyprus and the statements of the representatives of Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and other Member States,

Noting also from the report the conditions prevailing in the island,

Deeply deploring the outbreak of violence and the continuing bloodshed,

Gravely concerned about the situation which has led to a serious threat to international peace and security, and which has created a most explosive situation in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area,

Equally concerned about the necessity to restore the constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus, established and guaranteed by international agreements,

Conscious of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in accordance with Article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.

2.Calls upon all parties to the present fighting as a first step to cease all firing and requests all States to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from any action which might further aggravate the situation;

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed;

6. Calls upon all parties to co-operate fully with the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus to enable it to carry out its mandate;

7. Decides to keep the situation under constant review and asks the Secretary-General to report as appropriate with a view to adopting further measures in order to ensure that peaceful conditions are restored as soon as possible.

Adopted unanimously at the 1781st meeting.

Here is one more "crappy argument":

RESOLUTION 541 (1983)

Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983



The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create an independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need for a solution of the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continuing support for the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-General's statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration referred to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to pursue his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary-General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all States not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all States and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

Adopted at the 2500th meeting by 13 votes to 1 against (Pakistan) with 1 abstention (Jordan).

VP, you can applaud what the Turkish propaganda manufactures using selective history, gross exaggerations and outright lies, but apparently when conclusions need to be made by the UN, the ECHR or anybody else that matters, your crappy propaganda is totally useless.

[Kifeas]

You are trying to equate your condition with ours with total neglect on the sequence of events and existing facts. I was in enclaves before you lost your property. I wasn’t allowed medicine for my children and elderly before you lost your property. I was being murdered and harassed by the contracted murderer you invited from Greece before you lost your property and before any Turkish troop was on the island. If all went on like that, it would have been alright with you. I managed to pull through, I managed to resist and secure my existence on this island – that according to you is “crime”. What is more is that you got compensated for your home – your are living in 26000 GDP per capita, you got millions if not billions of dollars of aid from the EC and the World Bank, you got to eject the TC wing of the RoC from the government, you got to become a “nation” of the RoC where you navigated her to turn against her own people – the TCs. I got nothing for my lost ones (oh I am sorry – Makarios did apologize in front of the world so I guess that takes care of that) and what you stole from me. You are the aggressor trying to play the victim here. Putting up a stiff fight against the attack you launched is what you expect me to feel bad about. You can sell that in Brussells and New York where the political interests of some might be aligned with your criminal activities but it just won’t work with us, the TCs, that went through the devastation you caused to achieve your racist and hegemonic agenda.

Bozkurt Murataga, no one in his right senses would have ever expected dirty nationalists of your kind to have refrained from lying and to have been honest in admitting the truth; namely that it was your chauvinist TMT leadership -under “bozkurt” Denktash bey, that have invited, provoked and initiated the December 1963 intercommunal conflict, so that they would “force” Turkey’s hand to invade and immorally partition our country, by grabbing "in the name of your 18% community" the very best 1/3 of our ancestral homeland!

No one in his right senses would have expected from “bozkurts” such as you, to have been sincere in admitting that the establishment of enclaves was part of your chauvinist TMT leadership’s plans; because that is how a Turkish invasion and partition would have been better facilitated, something which has been proved in 1974 by the way in which Turkey’s aggression materialised!

[Piratis]

Kifeas, it is the "step 1" of Turkish propaganda: "Deny every crime the Turks committed against others".

If they admitted their own crimes then it would be obvious who is the guilty side. Fortunately the UN resolutions or the ECHR didn't wait from the Turks to admit their crimes in order to make their rulings.

[Viewpoint]

crappy arguments about illegally occupying our own country

What VP and the Turks consider "crappy argument" while they applaud the crap of some "Murataga":

RESOLUTION 353 (1974)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 1771st meeting,
on 20 July 1974



The Security Council,

Having considered the report of the Secretary-General, at its 1779th meeting, about the recent developments in Cyprus,

Having heard the statement of the President of the Republic of Cyprus and the statements of the representatives of Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and other Member States,

Noting also from the report the conditions prevailing in the island,

Deeply deploring the outbreak of violence and the continuing bloodshed,

Gravely concerned about the situation which has led to a serious threat to international peace and security, and which has created a most explosive situation in the whole Eastern Mediterranean area,

Equally concerned about the necessity to restore the constitutional structure of the Republic of Cyprus, established and guaranteed by international agreements,

Conscious of its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in accordance with Article 24 of the Charter of the United Nations,

1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.

2.Calls upon all parties to the present fighting as a first step to cease all firing and requests all States to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from any action which might further aggravate the situation;

3.Demands an immediate end to foreign military intervention in the Republic of Cyprus that is in contravention of the provisions of paragraph 1 above;

4. Requests the withdrawal without delay from the Republic of Cyprus of foreign military personnel present otherwise than under the authority of international agreements, including those whose withdrawal was requested by the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, in his letter of 2 July 1974;

5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed;

6. Calls upon all parties to co-operate fully with the United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus to enable it to carry out its mandate;

7. Decides to keep the situation under constant review and asks the Secretary-General to report as appropriate with a view to adopting further measures in order to ensure that peaceful conditions are restored as soon as possible.

Adopted unanimously at the 1781st meeting.

Here is one more "crappy argument":

RESOLUTION 541 (1983)

Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983



The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create an independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need for a solution of the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continuing support for the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-General's statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration referred to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to pursue his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary-General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all States not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all States and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

Adopted at the 2500th meeting by 13 votes to 1 against (Pakistan) with 1 abstention (Jordan).

VP, you can applaud what the Turkish propaganda manufactures using selective history, gross exaggerations and outright lies, but apparently when conclusions need to be made by the UN, the ECHR or anybody else that matters, your crappy propaganda is totally useless.

I applauded Andros actually, Piratis how long have you had these resolutions??? what does that tell you, no one gives ashit about GCs and what they want, the UN tried and you told the to fuck off and you expect the world to take you seriously, please you are only kidding yourselves no one else.

[paaul12]

Murataga a truly great post, thanks for taking the time to give the world an opportunity to see your struggle!

You and your people have suffered unimaginable hardships and I hope that this will end soon, good luck with your efforts.