Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

Viewpoint has caught a cold . . .

. . . . . anniahalation

. . . Bless you !

[Murataga]

The ambargo has the effect of forcing us to be dependent on Turkey. For example we can not even send out postal mail if it is not for Turkey to deliver them. We can not even receive children`s medicine for our babies or even aspirin for our elderly. More strikinglya, this chilling deprivation has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property...

The good news is that despite these illegitimate and cruel ambargoes that we did not and do not deserve we are doing extremely well. We have a GDP per capita above Bulgaria and Romania that just made the EU. Our recognition is closer than ever and even better news is that you are unable to do anything about it

TOTAL NONSENSE and you know it. There is absolutely no embargo. You depend on turkey because you depend on them militarily to keep on holding stolen lands and properties.

Sure you cannot post mail directly because you are an illegal state. But you do post it and you do receive replies the same way the Turks in Antalya do. So tell me what is the real negative effect. NOTHING is the answer.

I am from Baf. I attacked nor hurt any GC, ever. Yet GCs turned against us and we were attacked and chased by GCs. We had to seek shelter and security from GC aggression in enclaves. My father refused longest among the ones in the neighborhood to go into the enclaves but we were forced to or otherwise we would have all been killed by the GCs. In those enclaves we lived for 11 years deprived essentially of everything including medicine for babies. Had Turkey not provided what she did to us during our times inside the enclaves, you would be reading about us in history books - which I am sure the likes of you wouldn`t mind that much. The only way to get out was to accept that my rights given by the Zurich Agreement was vapour. We managed to get out and secure a zone where I nor my family had to look behind when walking on the street afraid that some GC will shoot us. What is "illegal" about us according to you is our very existence in Cyprus.

As for medicine don't give me that crap. There is absolutely no embargo on medicines, from ANYONE.The same way you buy Mercedeces from Germany you can buy any medicine from all over the world. The truth is most of the Medical companies do have branches in Turkey and do supply you their medicine at 1/3 of the price the rest of the world gets them. I personally bought some medicines from the northern area just one weak ago, nd you know why? a)Because the EU forced us to stop those medicines because they contain 3 sorts of active ingredients inside b)they are 1/3 of the price.
Just name me one Medical company all around the world who refused to sell you medicine. Just one!

Try something else Murataga other that faulty excuses or lies.

You are stating the damage you have inflicted (so proudly); I have told you how we are trying to pull through (via Turkey). Of course we have medicine, of course we have Mercedes - hell, I just told you myself that we have more than Bulgaria and Romania. This is because to your greatest inconvenience we have to survive and Turkey is helping us have them. We have them not because we are allowed to have them but because we can get them (only) via Turkey - huge difference. If it was up to you, we wouldn`t/shouldn`t be getting them at all. In fact this is what the criminal GC administration`s international policy has been essentially built around for the past 44 years: starve the TCs to succumbing. So get this straight: we are succeeding in terms of our survival and economy in spite of your crimes and theft.

No one will sell or buy anything directly to or from us; even medicine for babies or aspirin for elderly. This was the situation when we were in the enclaves and it still is. All merchandise and purchases have to go through Turkey as if the trade is done with her. Of course this "usually" is not economically viable and outweighs the trade benefit unless Turkey subsidizes the good - as with the medicine. The fact that you don`t like the answer doesn`t make it any less true. The chilling deprivation of the TCs from all goods has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property. This inhumane deprivation has been used against the TCs as a weapon to force us into giving up our rights. It has not worked and it will not work.

[Daemon]

VP is actually regarded one of the "intelligent" ones in the "TRNC"...

Of course he have similar DNA with yours, who could doubt about your tribe brightness ?

[Andros]

Pyrpolizer, Phoenix and Get Real,

Get Real, I am sorry that you have such a harsh opinion of my suggestions so far. Perhaps we can reach a mid-level of understanding and agreement, kind of a hybrid, or both of our views. Here's mine in a nutshell: I want nothing more than unificiation, but I believe that the Turkish Cypriots are the wrong people to do business with and Turkey appears to only demand elements of a plan that does not coincide with ours. What would you recommend, and by what means?

Pyrpolizer and Phoenix,
Thank you both for your input, and kind words. In my opinion, if I am not mistaken, I believe that I am probably one of the oldest persons on this forum, unless anyone else can say they were part of the Greek Cypriot demonstrators in London in Agust 1974 - Camden Town? As for my lack of patience, I have been waiting quietly as a father since 1983 - the year that the Turkish Cypriots and Turkey declared their unrecognised successionist state, with only the gradual promotion of their first statehood move. I have seen them grow from being relegated and condemned internationally in 1983, to now being identified as the party that said "Yes" to the last UN Sponsored so-called unification plan. I have seen international based companies work with them under a stealth licence as a province of Turkey, and now we are seeking signs of acknowlowedgment from the OIC, Syria, Azerbaijan and now the UK; in a very sneeky move between Gordon Brown and the Turkish PM.

Ultimately, the basis of my argument is that the U.S, UK, UN and even the EU are hinting that the so-called TRNC may actually be recognised as it stands if a next UN Sponsored unification plan is rejected in the future - And, guess what's in the pipeline, Yes! Another Annan Style plan consisting of a confederal idea with a loose central worthless government and two-component states. Where, one will be Greek Cypriot and the other Turkish Cypriot. Indications of this new process has already started appearing through the cracks - firstly by the U.S who has said that, "The Annan Plan is still on the table, and that all new initiatives will be based on that".

I am not the type of person to ever panic, primarily due to my experience, but the political envrionment has most certainly changed and our government officials appear to be rowing instead of flying!

Why? Because the new Turkish government duo, President and PM, do not give to shakes about the Turkish Cypriot people and are willing to work and sign almost any deal the U.S throws at them in order to resolve the Cyprus issue - that alone gives me a chill; to know that the Turkish president and PM are only interested in the bigger picture of seeing "TURKEY" in the EU, regardless of whom or what is destroyed on the way. Please just look at how they are handling the PKK military-waiting game issue. Almost un-heard-of in Turkish politics.

Kind regards,
Andros Costas

[phoenix]

Pyrpolizer, Phoenix and Get Real,

. . . if I am not mistaken, I believe that I am probably one of the oldest persons on this forum, unless anyone else can say they were part of the Greek Cypriot demonstrators in London in Agust 1974 - Camden Town? Kind regards,
Andros Costas

I went to that with my friend Zoe . . . we were 15. How old were you?

But I remember it as starting at Speakers' Corner . . .

[Andros]

Hi Phoenix,

You're certainly not the sleeping type?

Let me see now, I am now 66 years old making me around 33 years old in 1974 (born 1941). My eldest son was 10 years old at the time, wondering what the demonstration was all about.

I have seen many mistakes made by both Cypriots in Cyprus, but the politics of today has more dymension than we can possibly imagine. Politicians used to make very quick decisions and receive immediate results. Nowadays, a politician must calculate his/her every word or move with precision or else it may have catastrophic effects to their people's interest. The new Turkish duo are a completely different kettle of fish, very unpredictable and ruthless; almost to the point where they no longer have any heart for the Cyprus issue. That's where we may stumble across a half-built bridge if we fail to remove them from the equation of the Cyprus problem today. Just look at the Oil fiasco that Turkey has suddenly given its 100% attention to, and has suddenly decided to reclaim its so-called Gaurantor rights of the 1960 agreement.

I hope you are right with your confident and peruasive words.

[Get Real!]

They don't need to be moved, they could just be given to the TRNC as a present at it's recognition, sort of a "house warming party".

Hmm, its all about intellect. When i see that from you, i just may take you seriously.

Are you telling me that your "intellect" does not allow you to think of the possibility if the big powers want to punish the south for one reason or another?

The UK and the US do not want to get out of Cyprus and will do what ever is necessary to keep the bases mate, what can little "RoC" do about it, hmmm?

After all has been said and done Ricco just remember this... If the RoC is to ever go down you can be sure that the Turkish Cypriots will go down before them.

[Get Real!]

Get Real, I am sorry that you have such a harsh opinion of my suggestions so far. Perhaps we can reach a mid-level of understanding and agreement, kind of a hybrid, or both of our views. Here's mine in a nutshell: I want nothing more than unificiation, but I believe that the Turkish Cypriots are the wrong people to do business with and Turkey appears to only demand elements of a plan that does not coincide with ours. What would you recommend, and by what means?

I've already posted my plan right here...
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=10

[Pyrpolizer]

I am from Baf. I attacked nor hurt any GC, ever. Yet GCs turned against us and we were attacked and chased by GCs. We had to seek shelter and security from GC aggression in enclaves. My father refused longest among the ones in the neighborhood to go into the enclaves but we were forced to or otherwise we would have all been killed by the GCs. In those enclaves we lived for 11 years deprived essentially of everything including medicine for babies. Had Turkey not provided what she did to us during our times inside the enclaves, you would be reading about us in history books - which I am sure the likes of you wouldn`t mind that much. The only way to get out was to accept that my rights given by the Zurich Agreement was vapour. We managed to get out and secure a zone where I nor my family had to look behind when walking on the street afraid that some GC will shoot us. What is "illegal" about us according to you is our very existence in Cyprus.

Oh you hurt absolutely no one. I haven’t hurt anyone either. Tell me why I was chased out of my ancestral lands and why my lands and properties are stolen by you. As for telling me the TCs in Paphos were angels, do you want to start posting stories of the murders and attrocities they did? When AT LAST will you understand your community being the minority raised up AGAINST the majority, just because they felt they had their big brother (Turkey) behind them? You were forced into enclaves allright. Why haven’t you thought about it when you revolted against the majority, when even from the 50s you sided with the enemy, when you became their policemen, when you became the executioners of those who were fighting for their liberation?

As for being deprived of medicines inside the enclaves you yourselves created, that WAS NOT the point of my question. I was CLEARLY referring to the effects of your so called "isolation" in the occupied areas. You LIED in your answer nd you know it.

You are stating the damage you have inflicted (so proudly); (**1) I have told you how we are trying to pull through (via Turkey). Of course we have medicine, of course we have Mercedes (**2 )- hell, I just told you myself that we have more than Bulgaria and Romania. (**3 )This is because to your greatest inconvenience we have to survive and Turkey is helping us have them. We have them not because we are allowed to have them but because we can get them (only) via Turkey - huge difference. (**4 )If it was up to you, we wouldn`t/shouldn`t be getting them at all. In fact this is what the criminal GC administration`s international policy has been essentially built around for the past 44 years: (**5 ) starve the TCs to succumbing. So get this straight: we are succeeding in terms of our survival and economy in spite of your crimes and theft. (**6 )

No one will sell or buy anything directly to or from us; even medicine for babies or aspirin for elderly. (**7 )This was the situation when we were in the enclaves and it still is. All merchandise and purchases have to go through Turkey as if the trade is done with her. Of course this "usually" is not economically viable and outweighs the trade benefit unless Turkey subsidizes the good - as with the medicine. The fact that you don`t like the answer doesn`t make it any less true. The chilling deprivation of the TCs from all goods has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property. This inhumane deprivation has been used against the TCs as a weapon to force us into giving up our rights. (**8 ) It has not worked and it will not work.

1)The damage is inflicted by YOU on YOURSELVES by your continuing illegalities and stealing with the support of your Turkish mama. Digest it at last.
2) The fact that you can still get all your luxuries via Turkey proves that there are no negative effects to your so called "isolation". You have absolutely no problem, the same way Antalya as a province of Turkey doesn’t have any problems either. YOU CREATED this situation through your Taksim dreams, you became a PROVINCE of Turkey by using the Turkish lira as your currency. Complain and cry to yourselves, not to us.
3)Thank you for admitting your standard of living doubled the last 4 years. Tell me are Bulgaria and Romania selling stolen GC lands as well?
4)See 2 above
5)The only ones who did crimes and theft EXCLUSSIVELY after 1974 is YOU in collaboration with Turkey. Therefore you are responsible for 33 years of EXCLUSSIVE crimes and 11 years of SHARED crimes. Now sum them up and blame the GCs for 44 years. How pathetic!!
6)Thank you once again for admitting your so called "isolation" has absolutely no negative effects. Compared with the benefits you get from stealing and seling other peoples lands and properties, compared ith their ETHNIC CLEANING the very few minimal negative effects you have worth every penny of it, don’t they?
7)See 6 above
Inhumane deprivation of one’s rights comes DIRECTLY from YOU against the GC refugees. You cannot expect us to say thank you to you on top of it, do you? You are causing everything and you dare complain of inhumne treatement. How more paranoid can you be?

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer, Phoenix and Get Real,

Get Real, I am sorry that you have such a harsh opinion of my suggestions so far. Perhaps we can reach a mid-level of understanding and agreement, kind of a hybrid, or both of our views. Here's mine in a nutshell: I want nothing more than unificiation, but I believe that the Turkish Cypriots are the wrong people to do business with and Turkey appears to only demand elements of a plan that does not coincide with ours. What would you recommend, and by what means?

I already told you that we have tried everything and nothing worked and nothing will ever work in finding an agreed solution. I already told you to relax sit back and wait. They are already digging their own grave.
The situation in Cyprus concerning population changes is extremely dynamic, it is NOT STATIC. The solution will come when the majority of stolen land OWNERS in the occupied are Europeans, being served by an army of seasonal mainland Turkish workers.