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It's started, the UK and TK trade Agreement!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Murataga » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:28 pm

Nikitas wrote:"Regional autonomy in Spain for Catalonians and Basques"

In addition to the Basques and Catalans living in one locality for centuries the Spanish government has not allowed them to make any move towards indpendence. Recently the Spanish arrested members of the Basque political party exactly because they advocated independence. So there is no similarity between these cases and Cyprus, not to mention the interference from other countries which is not happening in Spain, in fact the opposite is happening with France aiding in the pursuit of the Basques.


I agree with you that the issue in Cyprus has nothing to do with what goes on in Spain. The RoC came into existence only because we allowed her to under very specific circumstances that we agreed upon with the GCs. Before that, there was no RoC. Unfortunately, it turned out that the GC partner was in the business of promoting some other agenda with their signature in the agreements and eventually dishonored their vow. Subsequently, our rights were taken away from us by brute force in a sequence of events that caused us tremendos suffering both in terms of life and economy. Fortunately, we were able to recover a part of these rights to secure our existence in this island and unfortunately some very important ones are still to be reclaimed.
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:57 pm

Piratis wrote:
The point that I am trying to make is that given our history, to pass now to a unitary state, where the majority rules, would fill me with alarm. It would mean that there would be an automatic GC majority since voting would be on ethnic grounds, not for political reasons. Promotion and appointments would be on ethnic grounds, and TCs would come off second-best every time.

The treatment given by many GCs to foreign workers, with who they have no bad history, is often poor. I think that it will be many times worse with TCs with who there is bad feelings already.


So I ask you again: Saying that because there might be some illegal discrimination the "solution" is to make ethnic discriminations legal and part of the law is like saying that every country where some illegal discrimination exists (practically almost every country) should adopt the Apartheid. Maybe we should legalize slavery again as well?

There are many legal ways to protect minorities, as they are applied all over the world. So look past your hate against anything Greek, and see that Greek Cypriots are just people like everybody else, and not how your hate propaganda tries to present us, in an effort to convince you that "Gcs are evil so it is ok to kill them, ethnically cleanse them and violate their rights"

All over Europe (and the world) ethnically different peoples who history put together are parting in friendly (sometimes not so friendly) fashion. Regional autonomy in Spain for Catalonians and Basques, Czecoslovakia now two countries, Regional Parliaments in UK, Yugoslavia in so many pieces I forget all their names, the former Soviet Union. There has not been a proper government in Belgium for almost a year because the two language groups have fallen out with each other. Yet you want us to move in the opposite direction with our history!


In all the examples that you gave, and I will add the Kurds in Turkey to the above, those people are legally and naturally the majorities in their specific regions. The Basques existed and have been the majority in their region for 1000s of years, same with the Kurds and the Scottish. The Slovakians didn't steal the land from the Czechs, nor did the Slovenians from the Serbs.
The case of TCs has absolutely nothing to do with the above. There has never been a "Turkish Cyprus". Cyprus for thousands of years had a great majority of Greek Cypriots at its every corner. There was no "TC region" or anything of that sort. So based on what should the north part of our country, where until you illegally ethnically cleansed us we have for 1000s of years been the majority, outnumbering you 5 to 1, be your region???

The case of the TC minority has nothing to do with the examples you gave and everything to do with other minorities that were created due to colonialism. The TCs in Cyprus are exactly like the Turkish minority in Bulgaria or Greece, or any other part where the Ottoman empire once covered and Turks spread there.

So if you want to separate in the way that they separated in the examples that you gave, then in that case the TCs would get some autonomy over the villages they have been naturally the majority, not over OUR towns and villages. You have absolutely no right for that.

So I don't have a problem if you rule yourselves. What I have a problem is you stealing OUR land. So if you want the TC villages to have autonomy , then really I have absolutely no problem with that.


Turkish Cypriots this a perfect post of why we need to unite in our fight for our own country, the TRNC is a great start and in the face of the above commnets and mentality we need to stick together and push for recognition harder than ever...viva la TRNC.
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:00 pm

Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Piratis
Any conflicts that we had in the past with TCs were exactly because they collaborated with the British and the Turks to fight against us and our rights.


I like the above is classic Piratis thinks Tcs should have helped Gc fight for their "rights" for enosis and the annihilation of TCs.


:roll: GCs were fighting against the British colonialists. Not a single TC was harmed by GCs until you joined the British and you started the fight against us and our rights.

You killed 10s of thousands and ethically cleansed 100s of thousands and you talk about "annihilation of TCs"?? But of course that is a crucial "step" in the Turkish propaganda.



So you expected us to fight against something we did not believe in or support as the ultimate goal was enosis..not even you can sell this idiotic idea as woudl have leade to our wholesale anniahalation.
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Postby MR-from-NG » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:07 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Piratis wrote:
The point that I am trying to make is that given our history, to pass now to a unitary state, where the majority rules, would fill me with alarm. It would mean that there would be an automatic GC majority since voting would be on ethnic grounds, not for political reasons. Promotion and appointments would be on ethnic grounds, and TCs would come off second-best every time.

The treatment given by many GCs to foreign workers, with who they have no bad history, is often poor. I think that it will be many times worse with TCs with who there is bad feelings already.


So I ask you again: Saying that because there might be some illegal discrimination the "solution" is to make ethnic discriminations legal and part of the law is like saying that every country where some illegal discrimination exists (practically almost every country) should adopt the Apartheid. Maybe we should legalize slavery again as well?

There are many legal ways to protect minorities, as they are applied all over the world. So look past your hate against anything Greek, and see that Greek Cypriots are just people like everybody else, and not how your hate propaganda tries to present us, in an effort to convince you that "Gcs are evil so it is ok to kill them, ethnically cleanse them and violate their rights"

All over Europe (and the world) ethnically different peoples who history put together are parting in friendly (sometimes not so friendly) fashion. Regional autonomy in Spain for Catalonians and Basques, Czecoslovakia now two countries, Regional Parliaments in UK, Yugoslavia in so many pieces I forget all their names, the former Soviet Union. There has not been a proper government in Belgium for almost a year because the two language groups have fallen out with each other. Yet you want us to move in the opposite direction with our history!


In all the examples that you gave, and I will add the Kurds in Turkey to the above, those people are legally and naturally the majorities in their specific regions. The Basques existed and have been the majority in their region for 1000s of years, same with the Kurds and the Scottish. The Slovakians didn't steal the land from the Czechs, nor did the Slovenians from the Serbs.
The case of TCs has absolutely nothing to do with the above. There has never been a "Turkish Cyprus". Cyprus for thousands of years had a great majority of Greek Cypriots at its every corner. There was no "TC region" or anything of that sort. So based on what should the north part of our country, where until you illegally ethnically cleansed us we have for 1000s of years been the majority, outnumbering you 5 to 1, be your region???

The case of the TC minority has nothing to do with the examples you gave and everything to do with other minorities that were created due to colonialism. The TCs in Cyprus are exactly like the Turkish minority in Bulgaria or Greece, or any other part where the Ottoman empire once covered and Turks spread there.

So if you want to separate in the way that they separated in the examples that you gave, then in that case the TCs would get some autonomy over the villages they have been naturally the majority, not over OUR towns and villages. You have absolutely no right for that.

So I don't have a problem if you rule yourselves. What I have a problem is you stealing OUR land. So if you want the TC villages to have autonomy , then really I have absolutely no problem with that.


Turkish Cypriots this a perfect post of why we need to unite in our fight for our own country, the TRNC is a great start and in the face of the above commnets and mentality we need to stick together and push for recognition harder than ever...viva la TRNC.


I would have had some reservation before the referendum but as time goes by I have to agree with you VP and join you in your struggle for recognition.

I hope our GC neighbours are happy with this. Do they even realise that the partitionists are nothing but their own creation? TCs of all walks of life will reluctantly push for recognition, what else can we do? Rejection after rejection, enough already.
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Postby Daemon » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:27 pm

-mikkie2- wrorte:

It amazes me the abundant stupidity and small mindedness of people in forums such as this when they can't analyse and form coherent views and arguments on any particular subject and instead revert to the tried and tested nationalist idiotic, moronic, pea-brained views of each side. That is why I have stayed away from these forums.


Hey one of those is a moderator here, where can someone found hope in this shit hole?

Cypriots (both sides) in the end get what they deserve.
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Postby Daemon » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:15 pm

Miltiades wrote:

In the words of my Cypriot grandfather Assiktir malaka !!!!


This is the most valuable post in this topic.

But this malakas have every right to believe any crap he wants that’s why the only solution exists for Cyprus problem is division or if you are very very lucky and have a second chance a BBF like the Anan plan could save the “patriots” of the biggest fart in their history after the coup.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:16 pm

shahmaran wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:He talks about our isolations being "imaginary" and about making sense within the same thread and expects a serious reply, im just sick of regurgitating the same crap over and over again to be honest...


Why don't you describe us your isolations Shah and tell us what REAL effect they have on your life?

Even for the fact that your passports are not accepted you have 3 other options: RoC passport, Turkish passport, British passport, or even just a visa.
Has your isolation had any effect on selling stolen Gc properties and doubling your standard of living within 4 years?

Come on tell us we are full of ears.


I am still waiting to hear a sensible answer to these questions either from Shah or any other TC.

VP in this very thread said each family has 2 cars like the Gcs.
In the past VP also said the recognition it's just a state of mind...


Oh yes you are absolutely right Pyrpo, its all sweet and dandy over here, i dont know what i was thinking... :roll:

Like someone said its all "in our heads"!


not sweet and not dandy is one thing (e.g Bangladesh is such a place) and problems because of "isolation" is another.. This is the 3rd time you avoid giving a convincing reply.

By the way wait a few years more until you are almost completely replaced by settlers and you will see how much more not sweet and not dandy it will be.
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Postby Murataga » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:33 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:He talks about our isolations being "imaginary" and about making sense within the same thread and expects a serious reply, im just sick of regurgitating the same crap over and over again to be honest...


Why don't you describe us your isolations Shah and tell us what REAL effect they have on your life?

Even for the fact that your passports are not accepted you have 3 other options: RoC passport, Turkish passport, British passport, or even just a visa.
Has your isolation had any effect on selling stolen Gc properties and doubling your standard of living within 4 years?

Come on tell us we are full of ears.


I am still waiting to hear a sensible answer to these questions either from Shah or any other TC.

VP in this very thread said each family has 2 cars like the Gcs.
In the past VP also said the recognition it's just a state of mind...


Oh yes you are absolutely right Pyrpo, its all sweet and dandy over here, i dont know what i was thinking... :roll:

Like someone said its all "in our heads"!


not sweet and not dandy is one thing (e.g Bangladesh is such a place) and problems because of "isolation" is another.. This is the 3rd time you avoid giving a convincing reply.

By the way wait a few years more until you are almost completely replaced by settlers and you will see how much more not sweet and not dandy it will be.


The ambargo has the effect of forcing us to be dependent on Turkey. For example we can not even send out postal mail if it is not for Turkey to deliver them. We can not even receive children`s medicine for our babies or even aspirin for our elderly. More strikinglya, this chilling deprivation has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property...

The good news is that despite these illegitimate and cruel ambargoes that we did not and do not deserve we are doing extremely well. We have a GDP per capita above Bulgaria and Romania that just made the EU. Our recognition is closer than ever and even better news is that you are unable to do anything about it :wink:
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:37 pm

Murataga wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:He talks about our isolations being "imaginary" and about making sense within the same thread and expects a serious reply, im just sick of regurgitating the same crap over and over again to be honest...


Why don't you describe us your isolations Shah and tell us what REAL effect they have on your life?

Even for the fact that your passports are not accepted you have 3 other options: RoC passport, Turkish passport, British passport, or even just a visa.
Has your isolation had any effect on selling stolen Gc properties and doubling your standard of living within 4 years?

Come on tell us we are full of ears.


I am still waiting to hear a sensible answer to these questions either from Shah or any other TC.

VP in this very thread said each family has 2 cars like the Gcs.
In the past VP also said the recognition it's just a state of mind...


Oh yes you are absolutely right Pyrpo, its all sweet and dandy over here, i dont know what i was thinking... :roll:

Like someone said its all "in our heads"!


not sweet and not dandy is one thing (e.g Bangladesh is such a place) and problems because of "isolation" is another.. This is the 3rd time you avoid giving a convincing reply.

By the way wait a few years more until you are almost completely replaced by settlers and you will see how much more not sweet and not dandy it will be.


The ambargo has the effect of forcing us to be dependent on Turkey. For example we can not even send out postal mail if it is not for Turkey to deliver them. We can not even receive children`s medicine for our babies or even aspirin for our elderly. More strikinglya, this chilling deprivation has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property...

The good news is that despite these illegitimate and cruel ambargoes that we did not and do not deserve we are doing extremely well. We have a GDP per capita above Bulgaria and Romania that just made the EU. Our recognition is closer than ever and even better news is that you are unable to do anything about it :wink:


Murataga the GC leadership is doing us a great favor and their stance is now exposed to the EU who will in ime get pissed of with their anti EU mindset, the saying that is a like to GCs in EU is you can out a saddle on a donkey dont make it a race horse.
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Postby Murataga » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Murataga wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:He talks about our isolations being "imaginary" and about making sense within the same thread and expects a serious reply, im just sick of regurgitating the same crap over and over again to be honest...


Why don't you describe us your isolations Shah and tell us what REAL effect they have on your life?

Even for the fact that your passports are not accepted you have 3 other options: RoC passport, Turkish passport, British passport, or even just a visa.
Has your isolation had any effect on selling stolen Gc properties and doubling your standard of living within 4 years?

Come on tell us we are full of ears.


I am still waiting to hear a sensible answer to these questions either from Shah or any other TC.

VP in this very thread said each family has 2 cars like the Gcs.
In the past VP also said the recognition it's just a state of mind...


Oh yes you are absolutely right Pyrpo, its all sweet and dandy over here, i dont know what i was thinking... :roll:

Like someone said its all "in our heads"!


not sweet and not dandy is one thing (e.g Bangladesh is such a place) and problems because of "isolation" is another.. This is the 3rd time you avoid giving a convincing reply.

By the way wait a few years more until you are almost completely replaced by settlers and you will see how much more not sweet and not dandy it will be.


The ambargo has the effect of forcing us to be dependent on Turkey. For example we can not even send out postal mail if it is not for Turkey to deliver them. We can not even receive children`s medicine for our babies or even aspirin for our elderly. More strikinglya, this chilling deprivation has been the case before any Turkish troops set foot on the island and before any GCs made claims about lost property...

The good news is that despite these illegitimate and cruel ambargoes that we did not and do not deserve we are doing extremely well. We have a GDP per capita above Bulgaria and Romania that just made the EU. Our recognition is closer than ever and even better news is that you are unable to do anything about it :wink:


Murataga the GC leadership is doing us a great favor and their stance is now exposed to the EU who will in ime get pissed of with their anti EU mindset, the saying that is a like to GCs in EU is you can out a saddle on a donkey dont make it a race horse.
Image


Couldn`t agree more.

I am enjoying GC comments that try to paint the developments towards our recognition as imaginary. I think we have them right where we want them 8)
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