Cyprus-Forum.com

[joe]

Albion: perfidious as ever

BRITAIN'S branding as 'Perfidious Albion' was coined way back in the 13th century, and, alas, rings as true today as it did then!

The latest example of this favourite British ploy is the British government's decision this week to sign an agreement with Turkey for the upgrading of the status of the illegal, breakaway Turkish Cypriot state in a form tantamount to all but full diplomatic recognition as a legitimate separate state.

Such a development is, of course, ruled out by the UN Security Council, whose numerous resolutions brand the breakaway state 'illegal.'

These resolutions also demand the withdrawal of the Turkish occupation troops and the return of the Greek Cypriots who were ethnically cleansed from the occupied north by the same foreign invaders.

One may well ask how Britain can act like this since it is not only one of the special all-powerful permanent members of the UN Security Council, which must back its resolutions, but also one of the guarantor powers of Cyprus independence, and the unity of the country?

It is, of course, clear that Britain's stance is dictated by its strategic and economic interests, which weigh far too heavily towards Turkey, in comparison with puny Cyprus.

It is high time that even Cyprus reacted to this long-standing pro-Turkish stand by Britain by using whatever it can to defend its own interests.

In this respect, it can certainly exert plenty of pressure to force Britain to adopt a more balanced policy by using the powerful card of the existence of the British Sovereign Bases on the island.

Foreign Minister Erato Kozakou-Marcoullis hinted as much in her reaction to the signing of this week's Turco-British agreement by referring to the existence of the bases.

Cyprus possesses another equally-powerful card, however, in the form of the large Cypriot community in Britain, whose members can certainly influence many British Members of Parliament who depend heavily on Cypriot votes in their respective constituencies.

It is high time that this particular card was used for all it is worth.

[Piratis]

The point that I am trying to make is that given our history, to pass now to a unitary state, where the majority rules, would fill me with alarm. It would mean that there would be an automatic GC majority since voting would be on ethnic grounds, not for political reasons. Promotion and appointments would be on ethnic grounds, and TCs would come off second-best every time.

The treatment given by many GCs to foreign workers, with who they have no bad history, is often poor. I think that it will be many times worse with TCs with who there is bad feelings already.

So I ask you again: Saying that because there might be some illegal discrimination the "solution" is to make ethnic discriminations legal and part of the law is like saying that every country where some illegal discrimination exists (practically almost every country) should adopt the Apartheid. Maybe we should legalize slavery again as well?

There are many legal ways to protect minorities, as they are applied all over the world. So look past your hate against anything Greek, and see that Greek Cypriots are just people like everybody else, and not how your hate propaganda tries to present us, in an effort to convince you that "Gcs are evil so it is ok to kill them, ethnically cleanse them and violate their rights"

All over Europe (and the world) ethnically different peoples who history put together are parting in friendly (sometimes not so friendly) fashion. Regional autonomy in Spain for Catalonians and Basques, Czecoslovakia now two countries, Regional Parliaments in UK, Yugoslavia in so many pieces I forget all their names, the former Soviet Union. There has not been a proper government in Belgium for almost a year because the two language groups have fallen out with each other. Yet you want us to move in the opposite direction with our history!

In all the examples that you gave, and I will add the Kurds in Turkey to the above, those people are legally and naturally the majorities in their specific regions. The Basques existed and have been the majority in their region for 1000s of years, same with the Kurds and the Scottish. The Slovakians didn't steal the land from the Czechs, nor did the Slovenians from the Serbs.
The case of TCs has absolutely nothing to do with the above. There has never been a "Turkish Cyprus". Cyprus for thousands of years had a great majority of Greek Cypriots at its every corner. There was no "TC region" or anything of that sort. So based on what should the north part of our country, where until you illegally ethnically cleansed us we have for 1000s of years been the majority, outnumbering you 5 to 1, be your region???

The case of the TC minority has nothing to do with the examples you gave and everything to do with other minorities that were created due to colonialism. The TCs in Cyprus are exactly like the Turkish minority in Bulgaria or Greece, or any other part where the Ottoman empire once covered and Turks spread there.

So if you want to separate in the way that they separated in the examples that you gave, then in that case the TCs would get some autonomy over the villages they have been naturally the majority, not over OUR towns and villages. You have absolutely no right for that.

So I don't have a problem if you rule yourselves. What I have a problem is you stealing OUR land. So if you want the TC villages to have autonomy , then really I have absolutely no problem with that.

[shahmaran]

Hey maybe they can move the British base to our side

[Piratis]

"2004 – If mikkie 2’s policy were followed, say yes to A plan then start challenging it in the courts! And on past experience through the gun too. "

Observer,

I like it when you take my statements out of context!

My point is that the Anan plan was so flawed many of its provisions could be challenged in the EU courts, by both GC's and TC's. That is the problem with implementing a plan that is not agreed by both sides prior to a referendum. The only way to solve the problem is for an agreed solution by both sides, not imposed solutions or ones that favour one side over the other.

It amazes me the abundant stupidity and small mindedness of people in forums such as this when they can't analyse and form coherent views and arguments on any particular subject and instead revert to the tried and tested nationalist idiotic, moronic, pea-brained views of each side. That is why I have stayed away from these forums.

In any case, Cyprus has been so messed up now I don't hold any hope for anything. All I see is a bunch of idiots throwing blame onto the other with nothing constructive to put forward. Forums such as these should be bringing people together and to build a mutual understanding. Instead, everything reverts to the base level nationalist views and mud slinging.

Forums just reflect reality. They can not bring people together if one part of the people has as an aim to be separate and there is currently no way to force them otherwise.

I think the answer you got to your query was a very accurate reflection of how TCs view your argument. They told you clearly: "We consider what you will sign as final. You have no further rights than what we allow you to have and if you even dare to seek justice in courts in order to alter the agreement that would mean war".

How more clear did you want it to be?

[Nikitas]

Shah said-

"Hey maybe they can move the British base to our side "

As we say in Greek, from your mouth and straight into God's ear! You can have them! All of them.

[Nikitas]

"Regional autonomy in Spain for Catalonians and Basques"

In addition to the Basques and Catalans living in one locality for centuries the Spanish government has not allowed them to make any move towards indpendence. Recently the Spanish arrested members of the Basque political party exactly because they advocated independence. So there is no similarity between these cases and Cyprus, not to mention the interference from other countries which is not happening in Spain, in fact the opposite is happening with France aiding in the pursuit of the Basques.

[joe]

Hey maybe they can move the British base to our side

The British bases are simply too large for the breakaway North.

[Eric dayi]

They don't need to be moved, they could just be given to the TRNC as a present at it's recognition, sort of a "house warming party".

[joe]

They don't need to be moved, they could just be given to the TRNC as a present at it's recognition, sort of a "house warming party".

Hmm, its all about intellect. When i see that from you, i just may take you seriously.

[Eric dayi]

They don't need to be moved, they could just be given to the TRNC as a present at it's recognition, sort of a "house warming party".

Hmm, its all about intellect. When i see that from you, i just may take you seriously.

Are you telling me that your "intellect" does not allow you to think of the possibility if the big powers want to punish the south for one reason or another?

The UK and the US do not want to get out of Cyprus and will do what ever is necessary to keep the bases mate, what can little "RoC" do about it, hmmm?