Panteli,
It is important, because the TC's blame everything under the sun on us the GC's. They make themselves to be the victims all the time in order to justify their unjust demands. Why should we have put up with that? Why must we bow to what they want? Isn't what we want important also?
Settlers - How can it be solved?
by insan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:29 am
Is it surprising for the Turks to deny or downplay these acts?
Is it surprising for the Greeks to make the "many", "so many thousands"? 3000, 6000 even "massive? No, of course. They are the masters of propaganda as it is well known by the fact of Akritas Plan.
According to Hellenic propaganda machine "many women" = one of the followings.
3000 women... no no no 6000 women... no no no massive rapes.... if not satisfatory make it 10.000... it's up to you to decide how many.
Yeah m8s! Keep playing your disgusting group scheme!
I'll meet you at Kalendes Greek!
Last edited by insan on Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by pantelis » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:16 am
Ok Insan,
It is also not surprising for the Greeks to exaggerate these crimes.
Each side has been trying to look better than the other side, that is why we still have a problem that cannot be solved.
The issue is to solve the problem base on the present and future situations, not based on the Past.
Both sides have had their turn in preventing the other side to enjoy life as they should have, for extended periods of time.
It is time to say ENOUGH and move on with what is in front of us.
It is also not surprising for the Greeks to exaggerate these crimes.
Each side has been trying to look better than the other side, that is why we still have a problem that cannot be solved.
The issue is to solve the problem base on the present and future situations, not based on the Past.
Both sides have had their turn in preventing the other side to enjoy life as they should have, for extended periods of time.
It is time to say ENOUGH and move on with what is in front of us.
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by MicAtCyp » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:51 pm
So the only problem for Insan it is the exact number of rape victims in 1974....
Insan why dont you go to the EU and ask to see yourself the testimonies presented in there? Would that be satisfactory for you?
Mass rapes
Relevant Article of the European Convention an Human Rights:
" No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment..." (Article 3)
Charge laid against Turkey:
Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of ALL AGES from 12 to 71, sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practiced, all women and girls of a village been collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly. In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public. Rapes were on many occasions accompanied by brutalities such as violent biting of the victims causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point OF suffocation. In some cases attempts at rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims. Victims included pregnant and mentally retarted women.
Turkey's defense:
No answer was given to these charges and Turkey boycotted the Commission's proceedings once her jurisdictional objection was rejected.
Commission's verdict:
" The evidence shows that rapes were committed by Turkish soldiers and at least in two cases even by Turkish officers, and this NOT ONLY in some isolated cases of indiscipline. It has not been shown that the Turkish authorities took adequate measures to prevent this happening or that they generally took any disciplinary measures following such incidents. The Commission therefore considers that the non-prevention of the said acts is imputable to Turkey under the Convention.
The Commission, by 12 Votes against one, finds that the incidents of rape described in the above cases and regarded as established constitute "inhuman treatment" in the sense of Art.3 of the Convention, which is imputable to Turkey" (Report, paras. 373-4)
Insan why dont you go to the EU and ask to see yourself the testimonies presented in there? Would that be satisfactory for you?
Mass rapes
Relevant Article of the European Convention an Human Rights:
" No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment..." (Article 3)
Charge laid against Turkey:
Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of ALL AGES from 12 to 71, sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practiced, all women and girls of a village been collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly. In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public. Rapes were on many occasions accompanied by brutalities such as violent biting of the victims causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point OF suffocation. In some cases attempts at rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims. Victims included pregnant and mentally retarted women.
Turkey's defense:
No answer was given to these charges and Turkey boycotted the Commission's proceedings once her jurisdictional objection was rejected.
Commission's verdict:
" The evidence shows that rapes were committed by Turkish soldiers and at least in two cases even by Turkish officers, and this NOT ONLY in some isolated cases of indiscipline. It has not been shown that the Turkish authorities took adequate measures to prevent this happening or that they generally took any disciplinary measures following such incidents. The Commission therefore considers that the non-prevention of the said acts is imputable to Turkey under the Convention.
The Commission, by 12 Votes against one, finds that the incidents of rape described in the above cases and regarded as established constitute "inhuman treatment" in the sense of Art.3 of the Convention, which is imputable to Turkey" (Report, paras. 373-4)
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by insan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:07 pm
I saw this crap on many Hellenic propaganda sites. What's the number of this report and date of issue, bre propaganda maker? Go greece.org and hellas.org to read the whole crap. You even didn't dare to give the link where you quoted this crap. You still exerting hard to hoist us those spurious craps as if they are the reports prepared by Human Rights Organnizations. Shame on you bre!
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by turkcyp » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:26 pm
Insan,
You really have to do some more research on the topic. Those are taken from commission (established by council of Europe) report. The biasness of the report is debatable because they have only talked to GCs before making the report, but it is not mere GC propaganda. It is coming from supposedly neutral parties.
p.s. Biasness is debatable because all of the info come from GC side in preparing the report.
- Turkey refused to cooperate at all, because they did not recognize RoC as legit, and
- TCs tried to cooperate on one condition that the report has to contain atrocities made against TCs as well, but commission refused that on the basis that because TFSC is not recognized and therefore can not make requests like that, so therefore only the requests of RoC can be fulfilled.
So it was very easy for GCs to portray "some" as 'thousands" because there was no countering opinion. Nevertheless some very bad incidents have happened to GCs during that time, and should have been punished, the same way some bad things happened to TCs, which should have been punished.
I believe given the conditions and their resources commission tried to be as neutral as it can be, but because they were using only GC resources, the document turned out to be biased.
You really have to do some more research on the topic. Those are taken from commission (established by council of Europe) report. The biasness of the report is debatable because they have only talked to GCs before making the report, but it is not mere GC propaganda. It is coming from supposedly neutral parties.
p.s. Biasness is debatable because all of the info come from GC side in preparing the report.
- Turkey refused to cooperate at all, because they did not recognize RoC as legit, and
- TCs tried to cooperate on one condition that the report has to contain atrocities made against TCs as well, but commission refused that on the basis that because TFSC is not recognized and therefore can not make requests like that, so therefore only the requests of RoC can be fulfilled.
So it was very easy for GCs to portray "some" as 'thousands" because there was no countering opinion. Nevertheless some very bad incidents have happened to GCs during that time, and should have been punished, the same way some bad things happened to TCs, which should have been punished.
I believe given the conditions and their resources commission tried to be as neutral as it can be, but because they were using only GC resources, the document turned out to be biased.
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by insan » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:48 pm
turkcyp, I didn't say that the conclusion of EHHR is biased. Though might be biased because I know that EHHR is a political organization. My reaction is that, Hellenic propaganda machine use some part of EHHR report for ultra-exaggerated dirty propaganda.
I agree.
So it was very easy for GCs to portray "some" as 'thousands" because there was no countering opinion. Nevertheless some very bad incidents have happened to GCs during that time, and should have been punished, the same way some bad things happened to TCs, which should have been punished.
I agree.
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by MicAtCyp » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:40 am
Easy thing to deny right? Easy thing to call crap right? Knowing in advance the testimonies are hidden and private. What a brave man you are fighting safe!
No Insan I don't have the testimonies in my hands, and I cannot give you the absolute evidence you require. Nor do I expect a TC ever do a film like that of Angastiniotis, or write a study like that of Papadakis to reveal you the truths. The revealing of the truth was always the job of the SILLY GCs! Nor do I expect YOU to reveal what your trusted GC friends Drousiotis, Stavrinides et al, told you on the matter of massive rapes.
On the other hand as you know I am a master of Propaganda, and I am working for a Government who is afraid to do her own, so she assigned me the job of doing it for her, without giving me the evidence I need....
Shame on you actually! Because you DID NOT have the guts to say you are sorry not even for ONE of those victims...
No Insan I don't have the testimonies in my hands, and I cannot give you the absolute evidence you require. Nor do I expect a TC ever do a film like that of Angastiniotis, or write a study like that of Papadakis to reveal you the truths. The revealing of the truth was always the job of the SILLY GCs! Nor do I expect YOU to reveal what your trusted GC friends Drousiotis, Stavrinides et al, told you on the matter of massive rapes.
On the other hand as you know I am a master of Propaganda, and I am working for a Government who is afraid to do her own, so she assigned me the job of doing it for her, without giving me the evidence I need....
Shame on you actually! Because you DID NOT have the guts to say you are sorry not even for ONE of those victims...
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by insan » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:06 am
As an eye witness, you alleged that more than 3000 abortions carried out only in Nicosia hospital in 4 months time, 1974. Why there wasn't any human rights committee there to record the number of abortions and put in their reports?
I don't deny that many human rights violations took place in Cyprus, including atrocities, ill-treatment and rapes from 1955 until 2005. But it's you who abuse the facts and exaggearte the facts for your dirty propaganda needs. We well know the real aims of your kind.
Yeah... I'm sorry for what happened not for what you alleged for dirty propaganda purposes. I'll never feel sorry for your alegged dirty propaganda.
I don't deny that many human rights violations took place in Cyprus, including atrocities, ill-treatment and rapes from 1955 until 2005. But it's you who abuse the facts and exaggearte the facts for your dirty propaganda needs. We well know the real aims of your kind.
Yeah... I'm sorry for what happened not for what you alleged for dirty propaganda purposes. I'll never feel sorry for your alegged dirty propaganda.
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