Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

MicAtCyp,

I don't really know how Insan can be convinced when all he sees in front of him is 'Hellen conspiracies'. All these stories of rapes were concocted by our side for propaganda purposes according to him. What can you do to convince?

[antonis]

I have to say that this thread is way out of its topic, and that was due to a misinterpretation of what I said a few pages back. What I claimed was that the problem of settlement is a war crime, and is an ethnic cleansing technique. Then I insisted that Turkey is to blame entirely on the issue of settlers. Turkcyp misinterpreted it and suggested that I was claiming that Turkey is the only one to blame for ethnic cleansing. This was never suggested anywhere. If anyone objects to the fact that Turkey is the only one to blame on the issue of settlements, speak out.

In any case, eventhough some facts are disturbing, and some times within such groups we try to hide the ugly truth in an attempt to reach consensus with the other party (which is dangerously artificial) it's good that they surfaced out this way. Because I'm sure that every one of us feels that disgust for the past, for which a group of extremists from both communities and our neigbouring "mothers" are to blame, will guide us in creating a society that will prevent these things from happening in the future, and not lead us to the conclusion that reconcilliation is impossible.

Can you criticize and blame yourself for your own mistakes and wrong doings as much as you blame others.

Turkcyp, I will have you know that I'm well informed about our mistakes in the past. Unfortunately I believe only a very small minority of cypriots has a more spherical understanding of the Cyprus problem. Convincing others to do it - without them being prepared - usually brings adverse effects.

[metecyp]

I don't really know how Insan can be convinced when all he sees in front of him is 'Hellen conspiracies'. All these stories of rapes were concocted by our side for propaganda purposes according to him. What can you do to convince?

I don't know what you're trying to do here. Ok, let's say these things happenned (as I said before I won't be surprised to learn that they're indeed true), what's your point? Are you trying to say that Turks are evil and GCs are angels? I can find similar stories where roles are completely opposite. There was a war in 1974, call it Peace Operation, call it Invasion. Both sides killed, raped and tortured and there's nobody innocent.

[MicAtCyp]

I quite agree with you Metecyp, however the matter of the rapes could not remain un-answered. And I am not claiming the GCs are any better, in fact when I was a soldier I can tell you for sure that in case a war would brake there were many of my co-soldiers who would love to rape their victims.This happens everywhere there is war, it happens everywhere there are defendless victims and I am sure it happened against TC victims in the past. However Insan almost suggested we are lying and are using this matter for propaganda. What would you do if you were in our position?

Insan by the way today 12 March, is the birthday of your "PEACE IN THE COUNTRY PEACE IN THE WORLD" Buyuk. Get a nice "Peace operation"= Invasion, Occupation, killings, missing persons, and massive rapes present for him.

[insan]

- It is a very well known fact that the Akritas team were/are the masters of creating false impressions to get the support of international community in order to achieve their goal.

- The "Mass rapes committed by Turkish army, systematically with the order of Turkish Generals" allegation is just another of their known propaganda method to create impressions in favour of themselves and against turkish army. They have many reasons to permenantly get rid of Turkish army. There's no doubt they had used every opportunity to damage, destroy their enemy.

- There are many websites that use these allegations as a propaganda tool. Those propaganda sites are trying to hoist the spurious documents to the visitors as if those documents are real; moreover as if those two documents are the first and second reports of European Commission of Human Rights . As a matter of a fact, those documents are forged documents that contains the allegations made by GC administration, in 1974 and 1975. None of these documents appear on any of the relevant, reliable sites; even on official "RoC" websites.


- A GC alleges that more than 3000 GC females raped by Turkish soldiers another GC alleges that 6000 GC females raped by Turkish soldiers. A GC alleges that 3000 abortion operations made in 1974. I wonder why didn't they invite UN to record those abortions and put in their reports. There's no human rights reports that cites such a mass abortion have been made in 1974 at Nicosia Hospital, as a consequence of mass rapes of Turkish soldiers.


Why should I believe the dirty propaganda of Akritas team?

To say "I heard that several rape incidents, committed by Turkish and GC soldiers" is one thing; turning it into a dirty propaganda is totally another thing and is unacceptable even disgusting!

[pantelis]

To say "I heard that several rape incidents, committed by Turkish and GC soldiers" is one thing; turning it into a dirty propaganda is totally another thing and is unacceptable even disgusting!

Insan is right on this one. That's what I also remember. There were isolated incidents.

The entire Cyprus problem was created on such "isolated incidents". Devious people, on both sides, capitalized on these incidents by spreading and creating hatred and fear among the masses, in order to cover crimes, and new "isolated incidents".
In the spring of 1974, the inter-communal talks were coming close to a compromised solution, but time ran out; not accidentally, I believe.

Both communities know who those instigators, of their side, were. They should bring them to face justice, in their old age, so we can put the past behind us.

[cannedmoose]

The entire Cyprus problem was created on such "isolated incidents". Devious people, on both sides, capitalized on these incidents by spreading and creating hatred and fear among the masses, in order to cover crimes, and new "isolated incidents".
In the spring of 1974, the inter-communal talks were coming close to a compromised solution, but time ran out; not accidentally, I believe.

Both communities know who those instigators, of their side, were. They should bring them to face justice, in their old age, so we can put the past behind us.

Amen pantelis re. It's always amazing how a small group of people can change the destiny of whole nations... it's also another reason why in any post-solution scenario, there needs to be a mechanism to keep such people in check, all it would take is a few incidents to bring things crashing down around our ears all over again.

[MicAtCyp]

It is a very well known fact that the Akritas team were/are the masters of creating false impressions to get the support of international community in order to achieve their goal.

The "Mass rapes committed by Turkish army, systematically with the order of Turkish Generals" allegation is just another of their known propaganda method to create impressions in favour of themselves and against turkish army. They have many reasons to permenantly get rid of Turkish army. There's no doubt they had used every opportunity to damage, destroy their enemy.

So in your opinion the official hiding of the testimonies of rape victims, of their numbers, names, locations, dates etc is a part of the Akritas ever lasting conspiracy? Man, your wrong theories have long ago passed the line of repair.
Furthermore where did I say that the rapes were done by the orders of the Generals?? In fact from what I heard the soldiers did not dare do anything in the presense of their superiors. And in fact some rape victims were saved from their martyrdom by Turkish officers.

None of these documents appear on any of the relevant, reliable sites; even on official "RoC" websites.

Exactly that’s what I was telling you. But you keep insisting the whole matter was used for official propaganda. Not only it was not used (and it could be used quite effectively you know) but for the sake of protecting the anonymity of the victims it was completely dropped. Giving people like you an easy grab to say everything is alledged.

That's what I also remember. There were isolated incidents.

So Panteli, are you telling us that those isolated incidents were about 5-10? And that those remote incidents were enough reason for Clerides to legalise the abortions in 1974?Do you deny the fact that Clerides legalised the abortions in 1974 by the way?
The fact is that every GC woman who got trapped in there, run a 50% chance to be raped, 25% chance to be shot dead, 10% chance to be raped and then shot dead, and 15% chance to get out of it safe. Ask refugees to tell you.

[-mikkie2-]

Ask refugees to tell you.

Whats the point? People like Insan will only say tha they were told to say these things!

[pantelis]

Ok Mike,
I said what I remembered. I was only 15. Is it surprising for the Turks to deny or downplay these acts? Does this discussion help our current situation?
http://www.un.org/esa/gopher-data/ga/ce ... y/CCYP1-2E

(c) Abortions for medical reasons. Until 1974 abortions were
illegal. However, after the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974
and the rape of many women by Turkish troops, abortion was
legalized in the following instances:

(i) When it is proved by the competent police authorities and wherever possible it is confirmed by a medical examination that a pregnancy is the result of rape and if not terminated it will seriously affect the psychosocial status of the pregnant woman;

(ii) When the pregnancy if not terminated will affect either the physical or the psychological health of the mother or her family or if the fetus is born it will suffer a severe physical or mental disease.

Does this discussion help our current situation?