Cyprus-Forum.com

[Andros]

Hi all,

I know some of you are perhaps wondering what's the point a starting such a discussion about Turkey. However, considering the latest oil fiasco, I believe that the question of Turkey's position concerning Cyprus is a pinnacle factor in reaching a Cyprus settlement.

In other words, who does Turkey really support? The so-called TRNC, or its rights to intervention of the 1960 treaty of the Republic of Cyprus? In reality, it appears that Turkey chooses when to SWITCH on, and SWITCH off, its support for the TRNC or the ROC. If there's some element for economic or political gain, Turkey suddenly starts thundering about it's so-called rights to the entire island as a guarantor country, thus completely dismissing its support for the so-called TRNC. While, if the waters are calm, she completely dismisses the shear existence of the Republic of Cyprus; It's recognition as part of its EU membership bid for instance.

This, ultimately, leads me to now understand why Turkey has always failed to win, or at least champion, the recognition of two republic states on the island of Cyprus as it overwhelmingly prefers to keep the people of the island of Cyprus hostage! If Turkey favours partition, then it should recognise the ROC and champion a two state formula, but please don't attempt to interfere in the affairs of the Republic of Cyprus without defining your true intentions!

What is it that Turkey is truly after? Do they really support the so-called TRNC, or are they just mocking the United Nations by wasting valuable time in the genuine search for a Cyprus settlement? Is there something in the Republic of Cyprus that Turkey wants, but we can't see? Is Turkey afraid to say the "Annexation" word, or does Turkey also what a democratically formulated Cyprus federal settlement?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am fed-up with the uncertainty of the future of Cyprus? Are we to one day wake up to a bad federal solution? Does the EU truly support a workable Cyprus settlement; regardless of it being in a federal or two state format? Or is the EU also holding out to a final showdown with Turkey in 2017 (The so-called entry of Turkey to the EU as a full member)?

[Nikitas]

Turkey is after total control of Cyprus, preferably through a sham federal settlement that will allow it to use local politicians to block anything it does not like.

This is why there are statements about "separate" communities but nothing about independent communities. Read the statements made by Gul, Erdogan, and Ecevit when he was alive. Turkey is not willing to let a fully independent, albeit partitioned, Republic of Cyprus exist and have full rights to enter into defence agreements and alliances like a fully free nation. Even double union is unacceptable because that "will make Greece a middle eastern power" according to Ecevit. And there you have the explanation for the continued presence of 40 000 soldiers, the colonisation, the insistence on not doing elementary humanitarian moves like returning Famagusta which would house 40 000 refugees. Everything is treated like a bazaar and nothing is done unless it is paid for with a move towards recognition (read formalization) of the separation.

[phoenix]

Andros, good selection of stimulating ideas so far! I am not as tolerant as you appear to be so ignore if this offends but I have to vent. It is purely my opinion, does not represent other Cypriots, and I am willing to change my mind if evidence is presented to ameliorate it (so far none seen).

IMHO Turkey is afforded way too much credence. Our future should not be in the hands of a backward nation which doesn't know itself if it is Muslim or secular, Asian or European, civilized and democratic or simply a gaggle of genocidal fascists.

We lack confidence, weighed down by our strong sense of doing the right thing by all and ditheringly absolve the resolution of our problem to someone else. WE (Cypriots with our President) need to decide what's best for Cyprus! It is the duty of the RoC (but as part of EU) to formulate the plan to restore and rightfully re-unify our island. We must take the initiative to tell Turkey hands off, get lost, take your frigging army and settlers with you and never darken our shores again.

We didn't invite the Turks and we do not need their opinion. If any TCs decide they cannot live with the Cypriots then they are free to follow their protectors . . . same argument goes for them too, since they were not invited to start with. So enough of whingeing from TCs that the place they invaded as Ottomans is no longer suitable for them under modern democratic rules.

Why should even one Cypriot suffer let alone 200,000 (at least), just to please Turkey and its malingerers?

[denizaksulu]

Turkey is after total control of Cyprus, preferably through a sham federal settlement that will allow it to use local politicians to block anything it does not like.

This is why there are statements about "separate" communities but nothing about independent communities. Read the statements made by Gul, Erdogan, and Ecevit when he was alive. Turkey is not willing to let a fully independent, albeit partitioned, Republic of Cyprus exist and have full rights to enter into defence agreements and alliances like a fully free nation. Even double union is unacceptable because that "will make Greece a middle eastern power" according to Ecevit. And there you have the explanation for the continued presence of 40 000 soldiers, the colonisation, the insistence on not doing elementary humanitarian moves like returning Famagusta which would house 40 000 refugees. Everything is treated like a bazaar and nothing is done unless it is paid for with a move towards recognition (read formalization) of the separation.

Nikitas, what you are saying is that , "geline kalsa, ya davulcuya varir yahut da zurnaciya". Translation, "if left to her own devices, the bride will either marry a drummer or a flute player". The bride being the RoC.

Well, thats another way of putting it!! Ok, Ok, the bride will occasionally make the right choice, but more often than not, its the wrong one. As the bride in Question DID in 1974.

[halil]

Andros, good selection of stimulating ideas so far! I am not as tolerant as you appear to be so ignore if this offends but I have to vent. It is purely my opinion, does not represent other Cypriots, and I am willing to change my mind if evidence is presented to ameliorate it (so far none seen).

IMHO Turkey is afforded way too much credence. Our future should not be in the hands of a backward nation which doesn't know itself if it is Muslim or secular, Asian or European, civilized and democratic or simply a gaggle of genocidal fascists.

We lack confidence, weighed down by our strong sense of doing the right thing by all and ditheringly absolve the resolution of our problem to someone else. WE (Cypriots with our President) need to decide what's best for Cyprus! It is the duty of the RoC (but as part of EU) to formulate the plan to restore and rightfully re-unify our island. We must take the initiative to tell Turkey hands off, get lost, take your frigging army and settlers with you and never darken our shores again.

We didn't invite the Turks and we do not need their opinion. If any TCs decide they cannot live with the Cypriots then they are free to follow their protectors . . . same argument goes for them too, since they were not invited to start with. So enough of whingeing from TCs that the place they invaded as Ottomans is no longer suitable for them under modern democratic rules.

Why should even one Cypriot suffer let alone 200,000 (at least), just to please Turkey and its malingerers?

[Nikitas]

Deniz

Interesting you should liken Cyprus to a bride. In 1968, just after agreeing to remove the Greek army division from Cyprus the dictator Papadopoulos had said that Cyprus is like a woman, and this woman can have two lovers, and in case his audience did not catch his drift he explained that the two lovers were Greece and Turkey. And it was also a clear hint at double union.

1974 was a deal gone wrong. I firmly believe that the end goal for both motherlands was double union. Which explains the orders given to the National Guard not to engage and to ingore Turkish military advances. At one point the commander had to hang his telephone outside his window so that the General Staff in Athens would be convinced there was bombing! They did not want to believe that the deal they made was not being kept.

What went wrong was that the bride had no choice, it was a shotgun wedding in reverse, the bride being the one forced to marry. Her resistance was the thing that made the deal go awry and one of the suitors got part of her.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz

Interesting you should liken Cyprus to a bride. In 1968, just after agreeing to remove the Greek army division from Cyprus the dictator Papadopoulos had said that Cyprus is like a woman, and this woman can have two lovers, and in case his audience did not catch his drift he explained that the two lovers were Greece and Turkey. And it was also a clear hint at double union.

1974 was a deal gone wrong. I firmly believe that the end goal for both motherlands was double union. Which explains the orders given to the National Guard not to engage and to ingore Turkish military advances. At one point the commander had to hang his telephone outside his window so that the General Staff in Athens would be convinced there was bombing! They did not want to believe that the deal they made was not being kept.

What went wrong was that the bride had no choice, it was a shotgun wedding in reverse, the bride being the one forced to marry. Her resistance was the thing that made the deal go awry and one of the suitors got part of her.

I dont know which version to believe. On one hand we have that the Greek contingent fought valiantly. On the other youre version of events. The third version, most likely one, was that there were no soldiers at all.Only Poor GC waiters wearing dark green fatigues, disobeying orders orders to stand fight. To encourage a sort of resistance the T army called "waiter", the lads stood up and asked 'malista' and they were peremptorily shot down. War does bring a bit of dark humour. Sorry.

Still, your version seems a bit hard to swallow. I wonder when more archives are going to be available.

[phoenix]

Andros, good selection of stimulating ideas so far! I am not as tolerant as you appear to be so ignore if this offends but I have to vent. It is purely my opinion, does not represent other Cypriots, and I am willing to change my mind if evidence is presented to ameliorate it (so far none seen).

IMHO Turkey is afforded way too much credence. Our future should not be in the hands of a backward nation which doesn't know itself if it is Muslim or secular, Asian or European, civilized and democratic or simply a gaggle of genocidal fascists.

We lack confidence, weighed down by our strong sense of doing the right thing by all and ditheringly absolve the resolution of our problem to someone else. WE (Cypriots with our President) need to decide what's best for Cyprus! It is the duty of the RoC (but as part of EU) to formulate the plan to restore and rightfully re-unify our island. We must take the initiative to tell Turkey hands off, get lost, take your frigging army and settlers with you and never darken our shores again.

We didn't invite the Turks and we do not need their opinion. If any TCs decide they cannot live with the Cypriots then they are free to follow their protectors . . . same argument goes for them too, since they were not invited to start with. So enough of whingeing from TCs that the place they invaded as Ottomans is no longer suitable for them under modern democratic rules.

Why should even one Cypriot suffer let alone 200,000 (at least), just to please Turkey and its malingerers?

Puerile! . . . why do you bother Halil?

This is precisely why the Cyprus Problem is stalling . . . The Cypriots are plodding along trying to find a solution and this is the kind of input we get from the other side! Unworthy!

[shahmaran]

Yah a solution my arse! How many solutions have you refused so far? I have lost count myself to be honest, and could i please see this "invitation" that the Turks apparently need that GC seem to be holding for suddenly appearing in Cyprus

I am glad you have finally reveled yourself as the racist PoS you really are, after all that scientific jargon, you have finally found yourself a place amongst people like Kifeas and Piratis and so forth, thank you for clearing up this uncertainty.

[denizaksulu]

Andros, good selection of stimulating ideas so far! I am not as tolerant as you appear to be so ignore if this offends but I have to vent. It is purely my opinion, does not represent other Cypriots, and I am willing to change my mind if evidence is presented to ameliorate it (so far none seen).

IMHO Turkey is afforded way too much credence. Our future should not be in the hands of a backward nation which doesn't know itself if it is Muslim or secular, Asian or European, civilized and democratic or simply a gaggle of genocidal fascists.

We lack confidence, weighed down by our strong sense of doing the right thing by all and ditheringly absolve the resolution of our problem to someone else. WE (Cypriots with our President) need to decide what's best for Cyprus! It is the duty of the RoC (but as part of EU) to formulate the plan to restore and rightfully re-unify our island. We must take the initiative to tell Turkey hands off, get lost, take your frigging army and settlers with you and never darken our shores again.

We didn't invite the Turks and we do not need their opinion. If any TCs decide they cannot live with the Cypriots then they are free to follow their protectors . . . same argument goes for them too, since they were not invited to start with. So enough of whingeing from TCs that the place they invaded as Ottomans is no longer suitable for them under modern democratic rules.

Why should even one Cypriot suffer let alone 200,000 (at least), just to please Turkey and its malingerers?

Puerile! . . . why do you bother Halil?

This is precisely why the Cyprus Problem is stalling . . . The Cypriots are plodding along trying to find a solution and this is the kind of input we get from the other side! Unworthy!

I have noticed that you yourself have been very 'helpful'. Yet, puerile, I will agree. Well, your mate is here to provoke and provoke he does.