Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

I am sick of this "humanitarian" bullshit regarding the settlers!

THere are thousands of Turkish Cypriots who left Cyprus both before and after 1974. If there is a shortage of people in the north then let us invent some kind of financial incentive for these CYPRIOTS to come back and populate the north. Settlers do not belong here, colonisation is a crime in international law.

All Greek Cypriots will tell you that there is a vast difference in the property issue if the new occupiers are CYPRIOTS and if they are settlers. It is hard but ultimately understandable that in a bzonal bicommunal solution there will be some resettlement and some property loss. That is acceptable if the property goes to a CYPRIOT and totally out of the question if it goes to a SETTLER!!!

Settlers did not materialise from thin air.They came from some place and they can go back to that place. If the "humanitarian" aspect bothers some people then let us give them some money to go back totheir villages in Anatolia. Those that married a Cypriot can stay. ALL others leave. Any other solution to this problem will undermine any solution to the Cyprus issue for ever.

[denizaksulu]

They even use a Greek word as a pejorative term to refer to them. I can't remember this word but it apparently means the rubbish that is washed up onto the shore by the sea.

Feejia.=seaweeds

I havent heard that word for yonks.
We used to call it Fija = Metaphorically dross, dregs etc. I am only refering to the word itself. (no confusion please)
Never heard it applied to humans, but I see the point they are making. I think most TCs do not want these settlers, but because of their kind nature they show tacit acceptance of these poor wretches who have most probably been displaced. This kindness is the ruination of the TCs. Soon they will be politically flooded.

[phoenix]

I am sick of this "humanitarian" bullshit regarding the settlers!

THere are thousands of Turkish Cypriots who left Cyprus both before and after 1974. If there is a shortage of people in the north then let us invent some kind of financial incentive for these CYPRIOTS to come back and populate the north. Settlers do not belong here, colonisation is a crime in international law.

All Greek Cypriots will tell you that there is a vast difference in the property issue if the new occupiers are CYPRIOTS and if they are settlers. It is hard but ultimately understandable that in a bzonal bicommunal solution there will be some resettlement and some property loss. That is acceptable if the property goes to a CYPRIOT and totally out of the question if it goes to a SETTLER!!!

Settlers did not materialise from thin air.They came from some place and they can go back to that place. If the "humanitarian" aspect bothers some people then let us give them some money to go back totheir villages in Anatolia. Those that married a Cypriot can stay. ALL others leave. Any other solution to this problem will undermine any solution to the Cyprus issue for ever.

Nikitas I disagree with you.

It's fundamentally wrong to take peoples' homes and give them to somebody else . . . WHOEVER that else may be.

The settlers are the TCs' and Turkey's problem. We just have to concentrate on re-unifying Cyprus so that the rightful people go back to their rightful homes and then the Turkish army can escort the settlers and partitionists back to Turkey as they all depart . . . together!

[Nikitas]

In 1980 I met a Turkish Cypriot man in Larnaca. He had refused to be moved to the north and lived and worked there. At one point he says to me:

"My daughter is married to a Kalamaras" (term used by Cypriots for mainland Greeks). I was surprised.

"Mr H. your daughter married a Kalamaras?"

"Yep, she did, and now hey live in Kyrenia" That floored me. His daughter married a mainland Greek and lived in Kyrenia, in 1980!!! It sounded like the ramblings of a disturbed individual. Then came the clincher:

"You know, our Kalamarases are worse than yours" said Mr H. and that explained it all!

[Nikitas]

Phoenix,

If we are committed as a community to bizonal, bicommunal federation we must respect our intelligence and understand the meaning of bi- in effect some form of property reallocation will be inevitable.

There is a huge difference between reallocating property with people who already own property in, and come from, Cyprus and trying to do the same thing with settlers. Between us Cypriots we can work things out, and it will be seen as a deal. Doingt so with settlers will be seen as a conquest and humiliation and is unacceptable.

[phoenix]

Phoenix,

If we are committed as a community to bizonal, bicommunal federation we must respect our intelligence and understand the meaning of bi- in effect some form of property reallocation will be inevitable.

There is a huge difference between reallocating property with people who already own property in, and come from, Cyprus and trying to do the same thing with settlers. Between us Cypriots we can work things out, and it will be seen as a deal. Doingt so with settlers will be seen as a conquest and humiliation and is unacceptable.

With your last remark I agree, that's why I maintain the settlers are the TCs' and Turkey's problem. . . NOT OURS! They brought them to Cyprus therefore thay can remove them.

My main concern is re-unification of Cyprus without an inch being lost to anybody by whatever name . . . Cyprus re-unified to satisfy the Cypriots and NO ONE else (within all the Laws that I know the Cypriots uphold etc).

[zan]

Tim Drayton wrote:
Then your personal experience has let you down badly pal because even you must know that I am not the only TC who thinks like I do.

Thanks for your reply.
I am not Cypriot, but I have had a lot of contact with people from all ends of the Turkish Cypriot political spectrum. You have probably guessed that I feel much greater affinity for those on the left, but I feel quite comfortable talking to people on the right as well. The statement I made in my final sentence is based on a good understanding of what Turkish Cypriots think. You can accept or reject that claim as you please.
You say that I must know that you are not the only TC who thinks like you do. Well, if you mean that there are TCs who are chauvinists, racists and nationalists, then of course there are. You find people like this everywhere. You only have to look at the BNP in the country in which I believe you live. But, if you are claiming that there any TCs who are happy about the way the north of Cyprus has been swamped with an influx of settlers from the most undeveloped parts of Anatolia whose way of life and culture totally clashes with their own, then in absolute honestly and sincerity and I can say that I have never once met a single Turkish Cypriot who has expressed this view.
In fact, I have ever since 1992 regularly visited a particular coffee shop in the north of Nicosia whose walls are adorned Denktash pictures, TMT posters etc. - all the regalia associated with a chauvinist ideology which I agree still finds support among a segment of Turkish Cypriot society. They refer to GCs as "gavur" or worse. I am sure you are pretty comfortable with all of this so far. This coffee house is located in a part of Nicosia which has now been almost entirely settled by mainland Turks and the regulars here express nothing but contempt for these settlers. They even use a Greek word as a pejorative term to refer to them. I can't remember this word but it apparently means the rubbish that is washed up onto the shore by the sea. Strangely, GCs from the same generation as these supposed Greek-hating chauvenists occasionally call in, and they are given such a warm welcome that it defies belief. Everbody in the coffee shop switches to Cypriot Greek for their benefit. So different from the cold shoulder given to any Turkish settler who dares to cross the threshold. What does that tell you about what really lies within the hearts of Cypriots?
I can also report from my own experience. I lived in mainland Turkey for a very long time. I know Turks (in the sense of "Türkiyeliler") and their culture very well. In 1992, I made a vist to the north of Cyprus for the first time and, totally under the influence of Turkish propaganda, believed myself to be going to what is patronisingly termed the "Yavruvatan" (baby motherland) i.e. I thought everything would be very similar to Turkey. I experienced a great shock upon arriving in Cyprus because I soon realised how different people there were.
Just in case you think this is all the prejudiced view of a "gavur Ingiliz" (if not a d... t... to quote one of your favourite terms to refer to somebody who disgrees with you), let us listen to the words of a mmeber of your fellow race, Turkish Cypriot academic Niyazi K?z?lyürek, writing about the period in which large numbers of settlers began to be brought in from Turkey:

Bu arada, Türkiye'den gelen 'soyda?lar'la birlik sa?lanamad? ve K?br?sl? Türkler, giderek, 'Anavatan'la özde?leme' a?amas?ndan, farkl?l?klar?n? ke?fetmeye ba?lad?klar?, yeni bir a?amaya geçiyorlard?. Türkiye'den gelenler de K?br?s'taki 'soyda?lar?'n?, 'ulusal fantezileri'ndeki gibi bulmam??lard?. Konu?tuklar? Türkçe'den k?l?k k?yafetlerine, kad?nlar?n?n 'serbestli?i'nden 'dinsizlik'lerine kadar, 'Türke benzemeyen' bir sürü halleri vard?. (Milliyetçilik K?skac?nda K?br?s page 292)

Meanwhile, it proved impossibly to achieve unity with the people 'of the same race' coming from Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots gradually passed from the phase of 'identifying with the motherland' to a new phase in which they discovered their differences. Those coming from Turkey also did not find that the 'members of the same race' in Cyprus lived up to the way had they had pereceived them in their 'national fantasies'. There were a whole host of factors from the Turkish they spoke to their dress, from the 'freedom' of their women to their 'irreligousness' that made them 'nothing like Turks'. (my translation)

In other words, however much nationalist ideology promotes the view that mainland Turks and Cypriot Turks are all part of the same great race, in cultural terms at least, they are very different. Paradoxically, the settling of Anatoilian villagers in Cyprus has had the effect of promoting the growth of a robust Cypriot identity among Turkish Cypriots.

Well, for your tastes, Niyazi K?z?lyürek is probably too "Rumcu" so you will not accept anything he says. After all, that is why Denktash banished this man who has never fought with anything apart from his pen, from his fiefdom in the north of the island, to the extent that he was unable even to attend his own mother's funeral. Well, let's find somebody closer to your own tastes, a full member of the Turkish race ?nal Batu, who served as Turkey's "ambassador" to the "TRNC" from 1979-1984, interviewed by Gül ?nanç in her fascinating little book Büyükleçiler Anlat?yor (page 97), in which she conducted searching interviews with four Turkish diplomats who served in Cyprus:

K?br?sl?lar?n kafas?ndaki Türkiyeli imaj? da büsbütün darbe yemi?tir. K?br?s'a, ta?? topra?? alt?n diye giden ki?iler k?sa zamanda anlam??lard?r ki, ne oran?n ta?? topra?? alt?nd?r, ne de K?br?s'ta ya?ayan karde?leri taraf?ndan ba??rlara bas?lacaklard?r.

The image of mainland Turks in the minds of Cypriots was dealt a stunning blow. Those who went to Cyprus in the belief that the streets were paved with gold very soon realised both that the streets there were not paved with gold and also that they would not be received with a warm embrace by their brothers living in Cyprus. (my translation)

Oops! It seems that an official from Ankara is saying exactly the same thing. So, now a nationalist like you will just have to accept it as the official line and swallow it. After all, these words were spoken by a person appointed to an official position by the motherland. How dare you doubt them?

So, in summary, yes I accept that there are plenty of Turkish Cypriots who agree with everything I have seen you post, except for the claim that they agree with the famous statement that those who are leaving are Turks and those who are coming are Turks. However, I respect your opinion if you say that you welcome mass immigration from mainland Turkey. It is just that I have never heard this view expressed by any Turkish Cypriot living in Cyprus before. Oh, but I forgot. You don't live in Cyprus.[/quote]

Tim

Although I understand what you are saying here you could actually be writting about any country in the world. Have you been out of the UK for long. Those bloody eastern Europeans taking our homes jobs and women. What a bloody liberty eh!!!

Yesterday on the news: Very few of these "imigrants" are the ones at the lowere end of the scale of wage earners. Those that did not have skills have got them and are contributing to the economy rather than the parasites they are portrayed to be. This does not stop the moaning and the racist remarks from the people I work with and the peoples houses I work in.

The point I am trying to make is that people always feel threatened by "stangers" on their shores. T_C went and hated what he saw. Iceman seems het up about something but will not say it outright. Halil is quantifying the blame as I do. We all have our ideas and predudices. I met a guy that came back from a long holiday the other day, a TC, and he was having a go at the TCs saying that they were sitting around while the Turks were working hard and opening shops and restaurants. We all see what we want to see.

Of course there is the problem that we are being outnumbered but that is the game we had to play given the conditions we were put under by GCs. I really would like to see the numbers of forieners in the "RoC" and how many people are disgruntled with them there. I would include those that the "RoC" have seen fit to give citisenship to regardless of what Greek land they came from, Pontians being one of them.

This stance that some are holding on this forum about being Cypriot first is just a load of claptrap. All over the world, countries are tryin g to atract large numbers of people to help the economy and in the case of the EU, give them extra leverage. Why is it that the GCs want to expell people instead??? Why is it tthat they only want to expell the Turks????This is much more than just racism. The political agendas are behind this and getting the TC numbers down to managible levels. Sure we would all like our cake and eat it but Cyprus is Cyprus and at the moment it is in two pieces. We have our problems with Turkey and people like Iceman have every right to be angry. With recognition we can put this right. We have no other choice otherwise. We would rather be Turkish that Greek....Not through predudice but because that is what we are. If and when the "RoC" decide that they can build a proper CYprus for Cypriots to live in then we can all be Cypriots. That does not exist and in my oppinion will never exist. I will be happy to be proved wronng....Long live that man who can give that gift to Cyprus.

I have lived in the UK all my life and love it here (although that is becoming hard to justify at the moment) and have had workmates accept me as "not a bad wog". I will not allow that in my own country of Cyprus. It cannot happen in the TRNC/KKTC.


"One Turk leaves and one Turk returns".......You betcha.....Turks from all over the world.....Don't try and make me feel ashamed about being Turkish. What I am constantly ashamed of though is being Cypriot because we cannot even sort out our own shit and keep blaming others. I can't count the number of times I have been asked if I am Greek because I am from Cyprus. When I say I am Turkish Cypriot then they say...."OH! You don't like each other do you".....I don't know which one pisses me off most.

[T_C]

zan you really have to see it for yourself man. You only have to go see the Turk areas and then go to the TC areas and youll see the HUGE difference between Turk & TC.

[T_C]

No one is trying to make u feel ashamed either my friens. If 80% of your own people have a problem with them then somethings obviously not right. They have the power to change the place zan and they are! Its nothing like the Uk! The Brits are not a minority and they are not leaving the UK in huge numbers. The TCs are.

You really must see for yourself zan.

[zan]

zan you really have to see it for yourself man. You only have to go see the Turk areas and then go to the TC areas and youll see the HUGE difference between Turk & TC.

I have seen it T_C and please don't think that I am having a go at you. I went there in 2000 and visited the poor sector of Lefcosia where my mothers side of the family is from and where we lived. My brother in-law said that it was not really safe to go there but what I saw made me smile and weep at the same time. The children that were running around looked just like me in some of my old black and white pictures. We were a poor family too. My Nenes house was gone but the old iron gate was still, just about hanging from its hinges. A massive fig had taken over. All I could think was..."There but for the grace of god go I". We seem so eager to forget where we came from and it sometimes saddens me. Other times I am as bad as the others. These people will change and they will better themselves. Some will rot where they are but others will flourish. It does make me laugh when I hear farm boy Cypriots suddenly lording it up. A little while back we were no better than any peasant that lived anywhere in the world....Now we are the most educated and most sophisticated people in the world......Don't make me laugh.....

I have decided that I will not run away from things that make me uncomfortable T_C.......It is our problem and that goes for all Cypriots be it GC or TC and we have to deal with it....No more ethnic cleansing.