Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQT6QHu1bU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMFojTA2h8

[denizaksulu]

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQT6QHu1bU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMFojTA2h8

Very similar indeed. Whats their game Zan? I think we have Enosis.

Perhaps wrongly labelled/titled? Maybe we can get clarification from our GC 'brothers'.

[Tim Drayton]

Those who leave are Turks and those who come are Turks

quote]

Do the Tc's agree with Ericas comment regarding the exodus of TC's and the settling of mainland Turks in northern Cyprus?

This statement cannot actually be attributed to Eric, who appears never to have an original idea in his life. It is the translation of Denktash's famous comment at a time when his feifdom was hemorrhaging its native population as fast as settlers could be brought in from Anatolia:
"Giden de Türk, gelen de Türk"
However, I would also be interested to know how many TCs here agree with Denktash's remark. My personal experience leads me to believe that even the most chauvenistic, partionist TCs detest the settlers from Turkey.

Then your personal experience has let you down badly pal because even you must know that I am not the only TC who thinks like I do.

Thanks for your reply.
I am not Cypriot, but I have had a lot of contact with people from all ends of the Turkish Cypriot political spectrum. You have probably guessed that I feel much greater affinity for those on the left, but I feel quite comfortable talking to people on the right as well. The statement I made in my final sentence is based on a good understanding of what Turkish Cypriots think. You can accept or reject that claim as you please.
You say that I must know that you are not the only TC who thinks like you do. Well, if you mean that there are TCs who are chauvinists, racists and nationalists, then of course there are. You find people like this everywhere. You only have to look at the BNP in the country in which I believe you live. But, if you are claiming that there any TCs who are happy about the way the north of Cyprus has been swamped with an influx of settlers from the most undeveloped parts of Anatolia whose way of life and culture totally clashes with their own, then in absolute honestly and sincerity and I can say that I have never once met a single Turkish Cypriot who has expressed this view.
In fact, I have ever since 1992 regularly visited a particular coffee shop in the north of Nicosia whose walls are adorned Denktash pictures, TMT posters etc. - all the regalia associated with a chauvinist ideology which I agree still finds support among a segment of Turkish Cypriot society. They refer to GCs as "gavur" or worse. I am sure you are pretty comfortable with all of this so far. This coffee house is located in a part of Nicosia which has now been almost entirely settled by mainland Turks and the regulars here express nothing but contempt for these settlers. They even use a Greek word as a pejorative term to refer to them. I can't remember this word but it apparently means the rubbish that is washed up onto the shore by the sea. Strangely, GCs from the same generation as these supposed Greek-hating chauvenists occasionally call in, and they are given such a warm welcome that it defies belief. Everbody in the coffee shop switches to Cypriot Greek for their benefit. So different from the cold shoulder given to any Turkish settler who dares to cross the threshold. What does that tell you about what really lies within the hearts of Cypriots?
I can also report from my own experience. I lived in mainland Turkey for a very long time. I know Turks (in the sense of "Türkiyeliler") and their culture very well. In 1992, I made a vist to the north of Cyprus for the first time and, totally under the influence of Turkish propaganda, believed myself to be going to what is patronisingly termed the "Yavruvatan" (baby motherland) i.e. I thought everything would be very similar to Turkey. I experienced a great shock upon arriving in Cyprus because I soon realised how different people there were.
Just in case you think this is all the prejudiced view of a "gavur Ingiliz" (if not a d... t... to quote one of your favourite terms to refer to somebody who disgrees with you), let us listen to the words of a mmeber of your fellow race, Turkish Cypriot academic Niyazi Kızılyürek, writing about the period in which large numbers of settlers began to be brought in from Turkey:

Bu arada, Türkiye'den gelen 'soydaşlar'la birlik sağlanamadı ve Kıbrıslı Türkler, giderek, 'Anavatan'la özdeşleme' aşamasından, farklılıklarını keşfetmeye başladıkları, yeni bir aşamaya geçiyorlardı. Türkiye'den gelenler de Kıbrıs'taki 'soydaşları'nı, 'ulusal fantezileri'ndeki gibi bulmamışlardı. Konuştukları Türkçe'den kılık kıyafetlerine, kadınlarının 'serbestliği'nden 'dinsizlik'lerine kadar, 'Türke benzemeyen' bir sürü halleri vardı. (Milliyetçilik Kıskacında Kıbrıs page 292)

Meanwhile, it proved impossibly to achieve unity with the people 'of the same race' coming from Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots gradually passed from the phase of 'identifying with the motherland' to a new phase in which they discovered their differences. Those coming from Turkey also did not find that the 'members of the same race' in Cyprus lived up to the way had they had pereceived them in their 'national fantasies'. There were a whole host of factors from the Turkish they spoke to their dress, from the 'freedom' of their women to their 'irreligousness' that made them 'nothing like Turks'. (my translation)

In other words, however much nationalist ideology promotes the view that mainland Turks and Cypriot Turks are all part of the same great race, in cultural terms at least, they are very different. Paradoxically, the settling of Anatoilian villagers in Cyprus has had the effect of promoting the growth of a robust Cypriot identity among Turkish Cypriots.

Well, for your tastes, Niyazi Kızılyürek is probably too "Rumcu" so you will not accept anything he says. After all, that is why Denktash banished this man who has never fought with anything apart from his pen, from his fiefdom in the north of the island, to the extent that he was unable even to attend his own mother's funeral. Well, let's find somebody closer to your own tastes, a full member of the Turkish race İnal Batu, who served as Turkey's "ambassador" to the "TRNC" from 1979-1984, interviewed by Gül İnanç in her fascinating little book Büyükleçiler Anlatıyor (page 97), in which she conducted searching interviews with four Turkish diplomats who served in Cyprus:

Kıbrıslıların kafasındaki Türkiyeli imajı da büsbütün darbe yemiştir. Kıbrıs'a, taşı toprağı altın diye giden kişiler kısa zamanda anlamışlardır ki, ne oranın taşı toprağı altındır, ne de Kıbrıs'ta yaşayan kardeşleri tarafından bağırlara basılacaklardır.

The image of mainland Turks in the minds of Cypriots was dealt a stunning blow. Those who went to Cyprus in the belief that the streets were paved with gold very soon realised both that the streets there were not paved with gold and also that they would not be received with a warm embrace by their brothers living in Cyprus. (my translation)

Oops! It seems that an official from Ankara is saying exactly the same thing. So, now a nationalist like you will just have to accept it as the official line and swallow it. After all, these words were spoken by a person appointed to an official position by the motherland. How dare you doubt them?

So, in summary, yes I accept that there are plenty of Turkish Cypriots who agree with everything I have seen you post, except for the claim that they agree with the famous statement that those who are leaving are Turks and those who are coming are Turks. However, I respect your opinion if you say that you welcome mass immigration from mainland Turkey. It is just that I have never heard this view expressed by any Turkish Cypriot living in Cyprus before. Oh, but I forgot. You don't live in Cyprus.

[phoenix]

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQT6QHu1bU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMFojTA2h8

Both equally good, brought a tear to my eyes, bosom swelling with pride, however the first one has the edge because it has the lyrics too!

Thanks Zan. Set me up for the day. Shame there are no Turks where I live so that I can grimace at someone.

[zan]

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQT6QHu1bU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMFojTA2h8

Both equally good, brought a tear to my eyes, bosom swelling with pride, however the first one has the edge because it has the lyrics too!

Thanks Zan. Set me up for the day. Shame there are no Turks where I live so that I can grimace at someone.

Glad to be of service Phoenix...I knew I could rely on you.......



NOW!


How many GCs agree with Phoenix???

[iceman]

Those who leave are Turks and those who come are Turks

quote]

Do the Tc's agree with Ericas comment regarding the exodus of TC's and the settling of mainland Turks in northern Cyprus?

This statement cannot actually be attributed to Eric, who appears never to have an original idea in his life. It is the translation of Denktash's famous comment at a time when his feifdom was hemorrhaging its native population as fast as settlers could be brought in from Anatolia:
"Giden de Türk, gelen de Türk"
However, I would also be interested to know how many TCs here agree with Denktash's remark. My personal experience leads me to believe that even the most chauvenistic, partionist TCs detest the settlers from Turkey.

Then your personal experience has let you down badly pal because even you must know that I am not the only TC who thinks like I do.

Thanks for your reply.
I am not Cypriot, but I have had a lot of contact with people from all ends of the Turkish Cypriot political spectrum. You have probably guessed that I feel much greater affinity for those on the left, but I feel quite comfortable talking to people on the right as well. The statement I made in my final sentence is based on a good understanding of what Turkish Cypriots think. You can accept or reject that claim as you please.
You say that I must know that you are not the only TC who thinks like you do. Well, if you mean that there are TCs who are chauvinists, racists and nationalists, then of course there are. You find people like this everywhere. You only have to look at the BNP in the country in which I believe you live. But, if you are claiming that there any TCs who are happy about the way the north of Cyprus has been swamped with an influx of settlers from the most undeveloped parts of Anatolia whose way of life and culture totally clashes with their own, then in absolute honestly and sincerity and I can say that I have never once met a single Turkish Cypriot who has expressed this view.
In fact, I have ever since 1992 regularly visited a particular coffee shop in the north of Nicosia whose walls are adorned Denktash pictures, TMT posters etc. - all the regalia associated with a chauvinist ideology which I agree still finds support among a segment of Turkish Cypriot society. They refer to GCs as "gavur" or worse. I am sure you are pretty comfortable with all of this so far. This coffee house is located in a part of Nicosia which has now been almost entirely settled by mainland Turks and the regulars here express nothing but contempt for these settlers. They even use a Greek word as a pejorative term to refer to them. I can't remember this word but it apparently means the rubbish that is washed up onto the shore by the sea. Strangely, GCs from the same generation as these supposed Greek-hating chauvenists occasionally call in, and they are given such a warm welcome that it defies belief. Everbody in the coffee shop switches to Cypriot Greek for their benefit. So different from the cold shoulder given to any Turkish settler who dares to cross the threshold. What does that tell you about what really lies within the hearts of Cypriots?
I can also report from my own experience. I lived in mainland Turkey for a very long time. I know Turks (in the sense of "Türkiyeliler") and their culture very well. In 1992, I made a vist to the north of Cyprus for the first time and, totally under the influence of Turkish propaganda, believed myself to be going to what is patronisingly termed the "Yavruvatan" (baby motherland) i.e. I thought everything would be very similar to Turkey. I experienced a great shock upon arriving in Cyprus because I soon realised how different people there were.
Just in case you think this is all the prejudiced view of a "gavur Ingiliz" (if not a d... t... to quote one of your favourite terms to refer to somebody who disgrees with you), let us listen to the words of a mmeber of your fellow race, Turkish Cypriot academic Niyazi Kızılyürek, writing about the period in which large numbers of settlers began to be brought in from Turkey:

Bu arada, Türkiye'den gelen 'soydaşlar'la birlik sağlanamadı ve Kıbrıslı Türkler, giderek, 'Anavatan'la özdeşleme' aşamasından, farklılıklarını keşfetmeye başladıkları, yeni bir aşamaya geçiyorlardı. Türkiye'den gelenler de Kıbrıs'taki 'soydaşları'nı, 'ulusal fantezileri'ndeki gibi bulmamışlardı. Konuştukları Türkçe'den kılık kıyafetlerine, kadınlarının 'serbestliği'nden 'dinsizlik'lerine kadar, 'Türke benzemeyen' bir sürü halleri vardı. (Milliyetçilik Kıskacında Kıbrıs page 292)

Meanwhile, it proved impossibly to achieve unity with the people 'of the same race' coming from Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots gradually passed from the phase of 'identifying with the motherland' to a new phase in which they discovered their differences. Those coming from Turkey also did not find that the 'members of the same race' in Cyprus lived up to the way had they had pereceived them in their 'national fantasies'. There were a whole host of factors from the Turkish they spoke to their dress, from the 'freedom' of their women to their 'irreligousness' that made them 'nothing like Turks'. (my translation)

In other words, however much nationalist ideology promotes the view that mainland Turks and Cypriot Turks are all part of the same great race, in cultural terms at least, they are very different. Paradoxically, the settling of Anatoilian villagers in Cyprus has had the effect of promoting the growth of a robust Cypriot identity among Turkish Cypriots.

Well, for your tastes, Niyazi Kızılyürek is probably too "Rumcu" so you will not accept anything he says. After all, that is why Denktash banished this man who has never fought with anything apart from his pen, from his fiefdom in the north of the island, to the extent that he was unable even to attend his own mother's funeral. Well, let's find somebody closer to your own tastes, a full member of the Turkish race İnal Batu, who served as Turkey's "ambassador" to the "TRNC" from 1979-1984, interviewed by Gül İnanç in her fascinating little book Büyükleçiler Anlatıyor (page 97), in which she conducted searching interviews with four Turkish diplomats who served in Cyprus:

Kıbrıslıların kafasındaki Türkiyeli imajı da büsbütün darbe yemiştir. Kıbrıs'a, taşı toprağı altın diye giden kişiler kısa zamanda anlamışlardır ki, ne oranın taşı toprağı altındır, ne de Kıbrıs'ta yaşayan kardeşleri tarafından bağırlara basılacaklardır.

The image of mainland Turks in the minds of Cypriots was dealt a stunning blow. Those who went to Cyprus in the belief that the streets were paved with gold very soon realised both that the streets there were not paved with gold and also that they would not be received with a warm embrace by their brothers living in Cyprus. (my translation)

Oops! It seems that an official from Ankara is saying exactly the same thing. So, now a nationalist like you will just have to accept it as the official line and swallow it. After all, these words were spoken by a person appointed to an official position by the motherland. How dare you doubt them?

So, in summary, yes I accept that there are plenty of Turkish Cypriots who agree with everything I have seen you post, except for the claim that they agree with the famous statement that those who are leaving are Turks and those who are coming are Turks. However, I respect your opinion if you say that you welcome mass immigration from mainland Turkey. It is just that I have never heard this view expressed by any Turkish Cypriot living in Cyprus before. Oh, but I forgot. You don't live in Cyprus.

Outstanding post Tim Drayton...well summed up..

[phoenix]

Can anyone tell me the difference between these two???

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQT6QHu1bU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMFojTA2h8

Both equally good, brought a tear to my eyes, bosom swelling with pride, however the first one has the edge because it has the lyrics too!

Thanks Zan. Set me up for the day. Shame there are no Turks where I live so that I can grimace at someone.

Glad to be of service Phoenix...I knew I could rely on you.......



NOW!


How many GCs agree with Phoenix???

Find another guinea pig Zan . . . I'm the wrong variety of GC I think your ruse has been exposed though

I have to acknowledge my mum AND my dad when it comes to anthems (just being a good daughter . . . )

[DT.]

Makes me ashamed of the time I put into my posts Tim.

My contacts in the north are limited to the guys I've met through this forum and the people in my house in Morphou (which is turning into a very surreal friendship.) The only person I have heard echo the beliefs of Eric was an English TC who moved recently back to Cyprus (I think). I was amazed to find that he immediately hit a brick wall with the rest of the members of the forum when we began to talk about this at Flo. No one else felt any kinship to these people (I think they're called the americans now)

Putting Eric aside as an anomaly in TC beliefs (and in most other things in his life) I am left wondering why the settlers issue holds such a high rank in the red lines the TC side will not cross when negotiating.

I realise the humanitarian side of this issue and while cannot see a solution without a majority of these people being repatriated to Turkey I would not dream of tackling this without extreme sensistivity to the people born here and their family. I have always believed that a life changing amount of money for each family would give them a head start in life back in Turkey, since this was their motivation for moving to Cyprus...a better life.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[Pyrpolizer]

They even use a Greek word as a pejorative term to refer to them. I can't remember this word but it apparently means the rubbish that is washed up onto the shore by the sea.

Feejia.=seaweeds

[Pyrpolizer]

A bit late to contribute to this topic, but for me TCs and GCs are like Rose flavor Milk and Banana flavor Milk. They are both Milk by 99%.