Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

By the way...If I have said that I am Turkish first and Cypriot second in those exact words then I did not mean it in that way. I am Turkish Cypriot and that is indivisible.

Thanks Zan for your lengthy and considered reply. Since you have asked me to respond, I will do so.
I really do not want to be too active in the "Cyprus Problem" part of the forum for the reason, as I have stated before, that it is up to Cypriots and Cypriots alone to reach a settlement. Cyprus's main problem for the past 50 years has been that outsiders have tried to impose solutions on it. I am sure everyone here will agree that the 1959/1960 agreements had the aim of securing a compromise between the interests of Britain/Greece/Turkey/America during the cold war when Cyprus was of great strategic importance and serious conflict between Greece and Turkey could have had disastrous consequences for the Western alliance. I really wonder if there was any Cypriot involvement at all in the drawing up of these agreements? Were any Cypriots ever asked whether it would work? Obviously, it didn't. Ever since then we have seen a succession of plans cooked up by outsiders (Acheson Plan, Ghali's series of ideas ... the Annan Plan) that have all failed. How many times has the UN brought the leaders of the two communities together into a room and tried to get them to agree to a settlement. All in vain. Now I see Ban Ki Moon doing exactly the same. Surely the necessary condition for reunification is a genuine political will on the part of the communities themselves to come back together. If there were a powerful desire from the people themselves for reunification, the political process leading to it would follow on naturally. On the other hand, the conditions hardly existed for promoting intercommunal reconciliation when both sides were staring across the green line at each other. Cyprus has changed immensely since free movement across the divide started. I was a frequent visitor to the north of Cyprus in the nineties and - at the risk of offending some people - always felt the place had the feel of a Stalinist dictatorship about it. Now, when I go there I sense there is a totally different atmosphere. I think only now have conditions emerged which may lead to the birth of a movement in the direction of reunification. It may not, on the other hand Some optimists perhaps hoped that the long lost golden age of ethnic harmony would be recreated over night. Just as some extremists were undoubtedly hoping to see the outbreak of full scale conflict once more. Both sides were disappointed. Of course there have been incidents. Some of these have been reported in other threads here. I have heard myself of an incident in which some TCs visiting Lefkara were told at a coffee shop there "There is no coffee for Turks at this coffee shop". But if you consider that last year 2 million crossings were made, the small number of negative incidents that one hears about pale into insignificance. I think four or five years is a very short time. Among certain segments of society such as writers, academics and artists very strong intercommunal ties have been built up. As you say, the average man in the street still does not have much contact with members of the other community. Even TCs who work in the south just cross over, go to work, maybe do a bit of shopping and return home. But surely you would expect any movement towards reconciliation to start among intellectuals and then filter down. I am hopeful that over time as the amount of contact between the two communities increase, the seeds of a powerful new movement to reunite within a common homeland can be sown. It will take time, but I do see developments leading in that direction. And as I say, it is up to Cypriots themsleves to decide if this is the direction they want to go in and how to get there. Then perhaps the UN can step in and facilitate the details of a settlement, but not before. So, I just want to take a back seat and perhaps get involved in things that are principally being lead by Cypriots. As I have done in some small ways since coming here. Well, I have just tried to explain why I want to remain a passive observer, and look at the length of my post already. Well, just shut up then, I hear some people say, and I take the point.
Can I try to reply to your main points as briefly as possible, then?
I accept that these are your experiences and who am I to question them. I do frequently hear in print, on the Biz Emeis programme and from personal conversations that there once existed a "golden age" in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I often wonder if this was entirely true. When I saw some elderly GCs in the formerly mixed village of Silikou all break down in tears when interviewed on Biz Emeis about these old days, this had a great effect on me and surely their recollections are as valid as yours. However, the cynic in me asks why the makers of this programme not find some former TC residents of this village and bring them all together to have this discussion.
However, you do misrepresent me slightly. This "golden age", if it is not a myth, existed much further back in the past than the days you are referring to. I am greatly influenced by the writing of Niyazi Kızılyürek here, and he would claim that in a pre-modern era when people lived in self-contained villages with little contact with the wider outside world and when people's sense of identity derived from their immediate surroundings rather than from mebership of a nation, a culture emerged which did not fuse people together and create a homogenous single identity, but rather embraced diversity and created an environment in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I listened to a programme about models for muticulturalism on the BBC world service this summer, and couldn't help thinking that the model which existed in Cyprus for several centuries was one such model, and a very successful one. It was not a melting pot but a system that permitted people of different ethnic and religious origin to cohabit harmoniously. So I am not trying to allege that TCs ever ceased to feel that they were Turkish. On the other hand, the motherland was an awful long way away for villagers at that time and few if any could hope to journey there. Over time in this environment in which they lived in close contact with GCs and with very little contact with the Turkish mainland, Turkish Cypriots, however much they continued to pereive themselves to be Turkish and nothing else, actually developed the totally unique culture that still exists today. So, no, I am not alleging that the people who spoke Turkish in Cyprus have ever failed to identify themselves as Turkish. As such, yes the "Turkish" and "Cypriot" of "Turkish Cypriot" are inseperable, and I concur.
Secondly, again to follow the ideas of Niyazi Kızılyürek, it was the advent of modernity and particularly nationalism, the idea that identity is rooted in allegience not just to one's village and immediate surroundings but to the abstract ideal of the nation, that changed everything. With the arrival of these ideas, this model of multiculturalism which had enabled people to cohabit for centuries was pulled apart as the separate ethnic identities which this system had preserved sudenly developed into a sense of loyalty to mutually conflicting national ideals. And this is surely the period you are referring to, of Ataturk pictures and Turkish flags in TC homes, of Greek flags in GC homes. This was a time when the golden age of harmony was already breaking down. When people were already starting to go their separate ways. You mention the separate clubs, the seperate coffe shops in mixed villages. Isn't it true, and I am only repeating what I have heard, that at one time there was only one shared coffee house in these villages, and that the separate coffee houses started to spring up in the course of these developments that I am describing? I don't know. I am repeating what I have read and what I have heard. I would love to hear from people with direct experience of these things what it really was like. Did this "golden age" exist?
That's surely enough for now.

[Nikitas]

GR,

How close to Cyprus do you have to be to have an opinion?

Those that leave often have far more sincere intentions than those that stay and indulge in this thing called "developing" which in fact is nothing more than taking virgin land and turning it into cheap and garish garbage. Patriotism contains a lot more than just mouthing slogans. That is why I believe all Cypriots should be forced to travel overseas, perhaps as part of their national service, to see how other cultures deal with the land entrusted to them and how they care for it.

[EPSILON]

Deniz,

I often ask myself that question too. The day when a routine conflict, of the kind that happen between people everyhere, between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot can be resolved on its merits without any reference to national origin, in a Cyprus venue, whether that is a court, newspaper, etc, that will be the start.

It is amazing how the bonds between neighbors were destroyed by a few hundred determined people with a little help from the two "motherlands". Cypriots must have been so naive back then!

OK Nikitas, as you like. however consider the case that the solution on basis you are dreaming or thinking will include share or full control of Cyprus main aspects like defence,sea/air territory , local education, local police to the hands of mainland Turkey. You will get the name of Cypriot (no Greek no Turk ) but in actual life you will get all above.

if you still consider that Turkey , being the winner of a war, will allow you /us to govern our multi culture Island alone as Cypriots then go for it and you will discaver how wrong you are. The only defence point we have in our hands is that we are Greeks and they are Turks and any solution must take this important point into account, otherwise we will loose and what today's remain free, including land and government.

If it was even a small possibility Turkey to allow Cyprus to go on alone with all its citizens then i would be 100 per cent with you but this is not the case and we must defend, at least, we can to defend.

[Nikitas]

Tim,

Another BRILLIANT post. You have an insight into the picture behind the picture.

[Nikitas]

Epsilon,

I have been accused of being an extremist exactly because I said that an independent Cyprus must have the means to defend itself and its offshore resources. So on that point I agree with you.

[zan]

Phat chance of that ever happening. The GCs are looking out for themselves only most of the time. Don't get me wrong zan...I am not saying that Anatolians should be "banned" from Cyprus...or that they should ALL pack up and leave. The people who have been here for 40 odd years and those who have married Cypriots should stay but we should have tight controls and not let it get out of hand. It just upsets me because we've ended up like the Armenians where we have more people in the diaspora than in the country.

I hear you mate and am with you but the GCs leave us no choice

The constant Turkish and TC games will end up in nothing short of war the price of which will be paid by future generations.

Wash your hands now Mr Pontius Pilot for tomorrow they are covered in blood. As they were back in 1963

Your incessant games conducted from the safety & comfort of London are most tiring. Personally, I don’t think those not living here should have a say in Cypriot matters as they are out of touch with reality and have forfeited their ties with this land anyway.

Interestingly, they are also the most likely to post archaic one-sided nonsense based on illusions invented by Boogeyman stories spread by their community’s constant sensationalizing of petty events.

Three year-olds don’t remember ANYTHING Zanny so it’s time you visited your local psychologist and rid this forum of your drivel.

I'll tell you what else I remember GR....I remember the pain of having my legs pulled apart too much when having my circumcision. I don't remember the actual cut probably because it did not hurt as much as my legs. I remember my cousin crying because he was scared...We were done at the same time. I remember a new pair of shoes when walking to a festival one Bayram. I remember my Aunt pulling me off a donkey because I made my little sister cry. I remember tracer bullets flying through the air on Bloody Christmas night. The smell of figs always give me joy of a happy part of my childhood. I remember walking into that house where those kids were gunned down in cold blood and the feeling of my feet sticking to the ground. I remember Kolinos the toothpaste advert. I remember wetting the bed until I was 11 and the vivid dreams and waking up screaming in the night and not knowing why. I remember liking my Uncle whose leg was shot off between 1963/64 whilst he was cycling to work by a Greek sniper but I don't remember why I liked him so much. I remember the fights my nan and grandad used to have because he was always drunk. I remember being stung on the hand because I picked up a bee that I thought was dead. I remember having my head cracked open by a kid with a sling shot. All bits and pieces but nothing solid....Apparently I was run over by a bread van but have no memory of it but a scar on the back of my head to prove it. `Some things are so vivid and only when I asked family members are they surprised that I remember and somethings don't have any meaning to them like my new shoes. I remember waking up and seeing my mother and a Greek doctor after I had my tonsils out....Nothing about the pain or before or after..just a single still image of my young mother whose face gets older the longer I hold onto the image....Funny thing the brain....shame you are so callous as not to be able to remember...I was a sensitive child and always have been so perhaps that is the reason I have these memories....You obviously are not and all you write says that about you. Who knows but I remember these little snippets in time and my brain took a long time in working it all out. I had no idea why I went through so many emotions in 1974 when I first went back to Cyprus but things must have triggers other things off. We came back two weeks before the Greek coup and I didn't want to hear the news so I shut off. After my depression at the age of 40 it all made sense and I am where I am today...You can ridicule all you like mate but facts are facts.....Your callous attitude does nothing for your image and only goes to reinforce what we all think about you. You are about as bad as it gets in Cyprus. Your constant reference to war and your threats are about as low as anyone can go so being judged by you will not have a lasting effect on my memory and you will not feature much in future thoughts. Just like the pain of my tonsils you will be forgotten......

[Viewpoint]

By the way...If I have said that I am Turkish first and Cypriot second in those exact words then I did not mean it in that way. I am Turkish Cypriot and that is indivisible.

Thanks Zan for your lengthy and considered reply. Since you have asked me to respond, I will do so.
I really do not want to be too active in the "Cyprus Problem" part of the forum for the reason, as I have stated before, that it is up to Cypriots and Cypriots alone to reach a settlement. Cyprus's main problem for the past 50 years has been that outsiders have tried to impose solutions on it. I am sure everyone here will agree that the 1959/1960 agreements had the aim of securing a compromise between the interests of Britain/Greece/Turkey/America during the cold war when Cyprus was of great strategic importance and serious conflict between Greece and Turkey could have had disastrous consequences for the Western alliance. I really wonder if there was any Cypriot involvement at all in the drawing up of these agreements? Were any Cypriots ever asked whether it would work? Obviously, it didn't. Ever since then we have seen a succession of plans cooked up by outsiders (Acheson Plan, Ghali's series of ideas ... the Annan Plan) that have all failed. How many times has the UN brought the leaders of the two communities together into a room and tried to get them to agree to a settlement. All in vain. Now I see Ban Ki Moon doing exactly the same. Surely the necessary condition for reunification is a genuine political will on the part of the communities themselves to come back together. If there were a powerful desire from the people themselves for reunification, the political process leading to it would follow on naturally. On the other hand, the conditions hardly existed for promoting intercommunal reconciliation when both sides were staring across the green line at each other. Cyprus has changed immensely since free movement across the divide started. I was a frequent visitor to the north of Cyprus in the nineties and - at the risk of offending some people - always felt the place had the feel of a Stalinist dictatorship about it. Now, when I go there I sense there is a totally different atmosphere. I think only now have conditions emerged which may lead to the birth of a movement in the direction of reunification. It may not, on the other hand Some optimists perhaps hoped that the long lost golden age of ethnic harmony would be recreated over night. Just as some extremists were undoubtedly hoping to see the outbreak of full scale conflict once more. Both sides were disappointed. Of course there have been incidents. Some of these have been reported in other threads here. I have heard myself of an incident in which some TCs visiting Lefkara were told at a coffee shop there "There is no coffee for Turks at this coffee shop". But if you consider that last year 2 million crossings were made, the small number of negative incidents that one hears about pale into insignificance. I think four or five years is a very short time. Among certain segments of society such as writers, academics and artists very strong intercommunal ties have been built up. As you say, the average man in the street still does not have much contact with members of the other community. Even TCs who work in the south just cross over, go to work, maybe do a bit of shopping and return home. But surely you would expect any movement towards reconciliation to start among intellectuals and then filter down. I am hopeful that over time as the amount of contact between the two communities increase, the seeds of a powerful new movement to reunite within a common homeland can be sown. It will take time, but I do see developments leading in that direction. And as I say, it is up to Cypriots themsleves to decide if this is the direction they want to go in and how to get there. Then perhaps the UN can step in and facilitate the details of a settlement, but not before. So, I just want to take a back seat and perhaps get involved in things that are principally being lead by Cypriots. As I have done in some small ways since coming here. Well, I have just tried to explain why I want to remain a passive observer, and look at the length of my post already. Well, just shut up then, I hear some people say, and I take the point.
Can I try to reply to your main points as briefly as possible, then?
I accept that these are your experiences and who am I to question them. I do frequently hear in print, on the Biz Emeis programme and from personal conversations that there once existed a "golden age" in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I often wonder if this was entirely true. When I saw some elderly GCs in the formerly mixed village of Silikou all break down in tears when interviewed on Biz Emeis about these old days, this had a great effect on me and surely their recollections are as valid as yours. However, the cynic in me asks why the makers of this programme not find some former TC residents of this village and bring them all together to have this discussion.
However, you do misrepresent me slightly. This "golden age", if it is not a myth, existed much further back in the past than the days you are referring to. I am greatly influenced by the writing of Niyazi Kızılyürek here, and he would claim that in a pre-modern era when people lived in self-contained villages with little contact with the wider outside world and when people's sense of identity derived from their immediate surroundings rather than from mebership of a nation, a culture emerged which did not fuse people together and create a homogenous single identity, but rather embraced diversity and created an environment in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I listened to a programme about models for muticulturalism on the BBC world service this summer, and couldn't help thinking that the model which existed in Cyprus for several centuries was one such model, and a very successful one. It was not a melting pot but a system that permitted people of different ethnic and religious origin to cohabit harmoniously. So I am not trying to allege that TCs ever ceased to feel that they were Turkish. On the other hand, the motherland was an awful long way away for villagers at that time and few if any could hope to journey there. Over time in this environment in which they lived in close contact with GCs and with very little contact with the Turkish mainland, Turkish Cypriots, however much they continued to pereive themselves to be Turkish and nothing else, actually developed the totally unique culture that still exists today. So, no, I am not alleging that the people who spoke Turkish in Cyprus have ever failed to identify themselves as Turkish. As such, yes the "Turkish" and "Cypriot" of "Turkish Cypriot" are inseperable, and I concur.
Secondly, again to follow the ideas of Niyazi Kızılyürek, it was the advent of modernity and particularly nationalism, the idea that identity is rooted in allegience not just to one's village and immediate surroundings but to the abstract ideal of the nation, that changed everything. With the arrival of these ideas, this model of multiculturalism which had enabled people to cohabit for centuries was pulled apart as the separate ethnic identities which this system had preserved sudenly developed into a sense of loyalty to mutually conflicting national ideals. And this is surely the period you are referring to, of Ataturk pictures and Turkish flags in TC homes, of Greek flags in GC homes. This was a time when the golden age of harmony was already breaking down. When people were already starting to go their separate ways. You mention the separate clubs, the seperate coffe shops in mixed villages. Isn't it true, and I am only repeating what I have heard, that at one time there was only one shared coffee house in these villages, and that the separate coffee houses started to spring up in the course of these developments that I am describing? I don't know. I am repeating what I have read and what I have heard. I would love to hear from people with direct experience of these things what it really was like. Did this "golden age" exist?
That's surely enough for now.

Lots of hot air....cut to the chase and stopping smoke screening the realities of 2007. The island is more divided today than it has ever been even though the borders are open and we do not share enough common ground to unite, everything else you throw out is verbal excess.

[zan]

By the way...If I have said that I am Turkish first and Cypriot second in those exact words then I did not mean it in that way. I am Turkish Cypriot and that is indivisible.

Thanks Zan for your lengthy and considered reply. Since you have asked me to respond, I will do so.
I really do not want to be too active in the "Cyprus Problem" part of the forum for the reason, as I have stated before, that it is up to Cypriots and Cypriots alone to reach a settlement. Cyprus's main problem for the past 50 years has been that outsiders have tried to impose solutions on it. I am sure everyone here will agree that the 1959/1960 agreements had the aim of securing a compromise between the interests of Britain/Greece/Turkey/America during the cold war when Cyprus was of great strategic importance and serious conflict between Greece and Turkey could have had disastrous consequences for the Western alliance. I really wonder if there was any Cypriot involvement at all in the drawing up of these agreements? Were any Cypriots ever asked whether it would work? Obviously, it didn't. Ever since then we have seen a succession of plans cooked up by outsiders (Acheson Plan, Ghali's series of ideas ... the Annan Plan) that have all failed. How many times has the UN brought the leaders of the two communities together into a room and tried to get them to agree to a settlement. All in vain. Now I see Ban Ki Moon doing exactly the same. Surely the necessary condition for reunification is a genuine political will on the part of the communities themselves to come back together. If there were a powerful desire from the people themselves for reunification, the political process leading to it would follow on naturally. On the other hand, the conditions hardly existed for promoting intercommunal reconciliation when both sides were staring across the green line at each other. Cyprus has changed immensely since free movement across the divide started. I was a frequent visitor to the north of Cyprus in the nineties and - at the risk of offending some people - always felt the place had the feel of a Stalinist dictatorship about it. Now, when I go there I sense there is a totally different atmosphere. I think only now have conditions emerged which may lead to the birth of a movement in the direction of reunification. It may not, on the other hand Some optimists perhaps hoped that the long lost golden age of ethnic harmony would be recreated over night. Just as some extremists were undoubtedly hoping to see the outbreak of full scale conflict once more. Both sides were disappointed. Of course there have been incidents. Some of these have been reported in other threads here. I have heard myself of an incident in which some TCs visiting Lefkara were told at a coffee shop there "There is no coffee for Turks at this coffee shop". But if you consider that last year 2 million crossings were made, the small number of negative incidents that one hears about pale into insignificance. I think four or five years is a very short time. Among certain segments of society such as writers, academics and artists very strong intercommunal ties have been built up. As you say, the average man in the street still does not have much contact with members of the other community. Even TCs who work in the south just cross over, go to work, maybe do a bit of shopping and return home. But surely you would expect any movement towards reconciliation to start among intellectuals and then filter down. I am hopeful that over time as the amount of contact between the two communities increase, the seeds of a powerful new movement to reunite within a common homeland can be sown. It will take time, but I do see developments leading in that direction. And as I say, it is up to Cypriots themsleves to decide if this is the direction they want to go in and how to get there. Then perhaps the UN can step in and facilitate the details of a settlement, but not before. So, I just want to take a back seat and perhaps get involved in things that are principally being lead by Cypriots. As I have done in some small ways since coming here. Well, I have just tried to explain why I want to remain a passive observer, and look at the length of my post already. Well, just shut up then, I hear some people say, and I take the point.
Can I try to reply to your main points as briefly as possible, then?
I accept that these are your experiences and who am I to question them. I do frequently hear in print, on the Biz Emeis programme and from personal conversations that there once existed a "golden age" in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I often wonder if this was entirely true. When I saw some elderly GCs in the formerly mixed village of Silikou all break down in tears when interviewed on Biz Emeis about these old days, this had a great effect on me and surely their recollections are as valid as yours. However, the cynic in me asks why the makers of this programme not find some former TC residents of this village and bring them all together to have this discussion.
However, you do misrepresent me slightly. This "golden age", if it is not a myth, existed much further back in the past than the days you are referring to. I am greatly influenced by the writing of Niyazi K?z?lyürek here, and he would claim that in a pre-modern era when people lived in self-contained villages with little contact with the wider outside world and when people's sense of identity derived from their immediate surroundings rather than from mebership of a nation, a culture emerged which did not fuse people together and create a homogenous single identity, but rather embraced diversity and created an environment in which TCs and GCs lived together in harmony. I listened to a programme about models for muticulturalism on the BBC world service this summer, and couldn't help thinking that the model which existed in Cyprus for several centuries was one such model, and a very successful one. It was not a melting pot but a system that permitted people of different ethnic and religious origin to cohabit harmoniously. So I am not trying to allege that TCs ever ceased to feel that they were Turkish. On the other hand, the motherland was an awful long way away for villagers at that time and few if any could hope to journey there. Over time in this environment in which they lived in close contact with GCs and with very little contact with the Turkish mainland, Turkish Cypriots, however much they continued to pereive themselves to be Turkish and nothing else, actually developed the totally unique culture that still exists today. So, no, I am not alleging that the people who spoke Turkish in Cyprus have ever failed to identify themselves as Turkish. As such, yes the "Turkish" and "Cypriot" of "Turkish Cypriot" are inseperable, and I concur.
Secondly, again to follow the ideas of Niyazi K?z?lyürek, it was the advent of modernity and particularly nationalism, the idea that identity is rooted in allegience not just to one's village and immediate surroundings but to the abstract ideal of the nation, that changed everything. With the arrival of these ideas, this model of multiculturalism which had enabled people to cohabit for centuries was pulled apart as the separate ethnic identities which this system had preserved sudenly developed into a sense of loyalty to mutually conflicting national ideals. And this is surely the period you are referring to, of Ataturk pictures and Turkish flags in TC homes, of Greek flags in GC homes. This was a time when the golden age of harmony was already breaking down. When people were already starting to go their separate ways. You mention the separate clubs, the seperate coffe shops in mixed villages. Isn't it true, and I am only repeating what I have heard, that at one time there was only one shared coffee house in these villages, and that the separate coffee houses started to spring up in the course of these developments that I am describing? I don't know. I am repeating what I have read and what I have heard. I would love to hear from people with direct experience of these things what it really was like. Did this "golden age" exist?
That's surely enough for now.

Lots of hot air....cut to the chase and stopping smoke screening the realities of 2007. The island is more divided today than it has ever been even though the borders are open and we do not share enough common ground to unite, everything else you throw out is verbal excess.

Sorry for not seeing this before Tim and thanks to VP for posting it.

I can't say much on this but what I will say I hope you will think clearly on.....


Golden age?????

1. Ottoman period???
2. British Rule???
3. 1960 to 1963???
4. 1963 to 1974???
5. 1974 to 2007???


I think your era falls in the Ottoman era....You will get a yes from the TCs and an OXI from the GCs. All those periods had a couple of chances only and that was either total rule or the first republic of Cyprus with joint ownership. All options were explored and we now have partition....A new era.

[Pyrpolizer]

I'll tell you what else I remember GR.... I remember Kolinos the toothpaste advert. I remember wetting the bed until I was 11 and the vivid dreams and waking up screaming in the night and not knowing why.

The first time I watched TV was in 1963 and only one family in the whole neighborhood had one. There were absolutely no advertisements on TV or radio then. YOU LEFT CYPRUS IN 1963.

We bought our own TV in 1965. Still there were absolutely no advertisements. The first advertisement came later (for coca cola) and everybody thought it was a TV program!!! And everybody was talking about that little program saying how good coca cola was

The kolinos ad was some time before 1974.....

[Pyrpolizer]

Lots of hot air....cut to the chase and stopping smoke screening the realities of 2007. The island is more divided today than it has ever been even though the borders are open and we do not share enough common ground to unite, everything else you throw out is verbal excess.

Oh, and that was because of such a democratic, peaceful and natural evolution, the extend of which you cannot conceive.

Put one in prison for 30 years and he will forget who his mother was in the end, not just his neighbors...