Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Archbishop lashes out at Morphou partition warning
By Elias Hazou
ARCHBISHOP Chrysostomos has come down hard on a subordinate who suggested that the policies of the Papadopoulos administration are cementing partition.

The partition comments came from Bishop Neophytos of Morphou. Speaking at an anti-occupation event organised by refugees hailing from the occupied town, Neophytos had warned of the dangers of the status quo turning into permanent partition.

Neophytos’ remark sparked a no-holds-barred attack from the Prelate, whose public image is strongly pro-government.

“The holy brother deserves whatever he gets,” said the Archbishop of Neophytos.

“If, between the present situation and the Annan plan, he would choose the latter, then really what can you say to him?”

He added: “It is common knowledge the Annan plan would have dissolved the Republic. We would have no status left. We’ve been through this a thousand times.

“Now, if some people don’t understand this, well then we can’t rip their heads apart and insert our views. It can’t be done.”

Chrysostomos seemed to take particular offense at Neophytos’ dig that the government was doing nothing to push forward a settlement.

“I know of no agreement that would have served the interests of the people of Cyprus – an agreement that would have allowed them to return to the land of their fathers – that was rejected by any political leadership.

“The Cypriot people desire a democratic, viable, workable, normal solution. The thing they desire less is the present situation. But since we have not been offered something better, should we leave what we have and accept what is worse? These things are crystal clear. Those who cannot see and bury their heads in the sand can say whatever they want.”

Neophytos had no comeback to Chrysostomos’ barrage, except to say that “these accusations do not concern me.”
It is not the first time the two clerics have been at loggerheads over politics. Bishop Neophytos had supported the Annan plan for reunification, and was the one who reached agreement with the Turkish side on resuming services at the occupied church of Ayios Mamas in 2004.
The holding of the service had divided politicians on both sides of the divide. Some objected to the possibility that Greek Cypriot pilgrims crossing to the north would be forced to show passports, in what would be an indirect recognition of the breakaway regime. Others pointed to the pro-reunification spirit of the event.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2007


How can there be a solution without the "RoC" dissolving???


If no agreement exists that serves the people of Cyprus then what the hell have they been doing all this time???

The Orthodox Church playing politics again. Does Tpap have the balls to stand up to them??The biggest obstacle in the Cyprob. Can you guys ever elect another pretend priest to run the "RoC" or did you learn your lesson with Makarios?

[Bananiot]

Neophytos is an oasis in the church desert. A real Cypriot. Chrysostomos is an ordinary crook and nothing else.

[Nikitas]

Now you are getting close!

The dissolution of the Republic is one of the long term goals of Turkey, like Gul said, under the Annan plan "they would have lost their sovereignty" and explained how this is bebeficial to Turkey.

Of course you can have a solution where the Republic adopts a new constitution and becomes a federal state, a solution reinforced by popular sovereignty in the form of plebiscites. In this case no dissolution of the Repubic is involved.

Now that the Republic is a member of the EU it is doubftul that there can be a dissolution, membership guarantees continuity of the legal personality of the state that joined the Union regardless of any future developemtns, even if the north is recognised or even if it joins Turkey in a formal union or annexation.

Your friends the British, eager to safeguard their interests, rushed to take over the drafting of the Annan plan to prevent loss of their territory in the new state that would emerge. Dissolution meant the abolition of the status of the Sovereign Base Area.

As you see everyone in this Annan thing had strategic interests they were eager to promote, but the Greek Cypriot side is the baddy in the mix becaue they rejected this abomination inorder to sruvive as a state.

So far no one on this forum or elsewhere has answered these simple questions- if under the new nation foreseen by the Annan plan one component state decided to break away and declare unilateral independence what would be the status of the other component state? How would that affect membership in international organizations and treaty obligations? This is what the USA now realises and has changed its tune about the plan.

This is what the archbishop was talking about and had every right to note it because it goes beyond politics and affects the survival of the Greek Cypriots as a community on the island.

[zan]

Now you are getting close!

The dissolution of the Republic is one of the long term goals of Turkey, like Gul said, under the Annan plan "they would have lost their sovereignty" and explained how this is bebeficial to Turkey.

Of course you can have a solution where the Republic adopts a new constitution and becomes a federal state, a solution reinforced by popular sovereignty in the form of plebiscites. In this case no dissolution of the Repubic is involved.

Now that the Republic is a member of the EU it is doubftul that there can be a dissolution, membership guarantees continuity of the legal personality of the state that joined the Union regardless of any future developemtns, even if the north is recognised or even if it joins Turkey in a formal union or annexation.

Your friends the British, eager to safeguard their interests, rushed to take over the drafting of the Annan plan to prevent loss of their territory in the new state that would emerge. Dissolution meant the abolition of the status of the Sovereign Base Area.

As you see everyone in this Annan thing had strategic interests they were eager to promote, but the Greek Cypriot side is the baddy in the mix becaue they rejected this abomination inorder to sruvive as a state.

So far no one on this forum or elsewhere has answered these simple questions- if under the new nation foreseen by the Annan plan one component state decided to break away and declare unilateral independence what would be the status of the other component state? How would that affect membership in international organizations and treaty obligations? This is what the USA now realises and has changed its tune about the plan.

This is what the archbishop was talking about and had every right to note it because it goes beyond politics and affects the survival of the Greek Cypriots as a community on the island.

The "RoC" is not prepared to make a single compromise Nikitas so highlighting single difficulties after the event is evidence of TPaps negligence in the first place. Where the hell was he when it was all being discussed and finalised...Playing tricks and trying to win the whole affair with skullduggery. He isolated himself from the discussions before and after the plan. Before..Because he did not want to have any sort of agreement and after because of the realisation of the world of his intent.

You have mentioned, in another thread, that new inventions in warfare can change the balance of power.......It seems that the "RoC" did not anticipate the best weapon of all and that is communication at the speed of light. The old Greek tradition of stalling things and using time to trick its way into strong positions is over but they are still playing the same game. The Internet is the weapon of mass destruction for the "RoC" and their every twist and turn is exposed at the push of a button. No more hiding behind the comfort of a slow lumbering system.....Welcome to the 21st century...

[Nikitas]

When all is said and done the end result is that the Republic is a member of the EU and that reinforces its legal status. Whatever happens from now on will be with more players than simply the British and Turkey who both had hidden agendas.

And once again my simple questions went unanswered. When you have people like Gul and Erdogan openly stating that their goal is the dissolution of the Republic, you have to ask what hidden agendas the dissolution serves. Nothing has really changed since the days when Kenan Evren said that those that think the Turkish army will leave Cyprus know nothing about nationalism. In which case you fight fire with fire and project your own nationalism.

The attachment to the legal status of the Republic is an across the board principle shared by all political parties in the south, for the simple reason that it is vital to survival. Abandoning that principle means that you open up the way to eventual double union, and very few Greek Cypriots want that to happen. In the end the RoC will save the north from the fate of annexation and you will remember my words then.

[zan]

When all is said and done the end result is that the Republic is a member of the EU and that reinforces its legal status. Whatever happens from now on will be with more players than simply the British and Turkey who both had hidden agendas.

And once again my simple questions went unanswered. When you have people like Gul and Erdogan openly stating that their goal is the dissolution of the Republic, you have to ask what hidden agendas the dissolution serves. Nothing has really changed since the days when Kenan Evren said that those that think the Turkish army will leave Cyprus know nothing about nationalism. In which case you fight fire with fire and project your own nationalism.

The attachment to the legal status of the Republic is an across the board principle shared by all political parties in the south, for the simple reason that it is vital to survival. Abandoning that principle means that you open up the way to eventual double union, and very few Greek Cypriots want that to happen. In the end the RoC will save the north from the fate of annexation and you will remember my words then.

When all else fails we all resort to "Well this is the way it is so accept it" Nikitas. It is the dying breath of a defeated argument. The "RoC", as it stands, was built on deception and lies and the Akritas plan was the perfect example for that. It was used to strip all the power from TC hands and is still being used in that way. Changes have been made that should not have been. You are right that with the thinking that those at the top have, it cannot be dissolved and that said leaves only one option and that is partition. Annexation is not possible unless Turkey is forced into a corner so that little tale to scare the school children is not working. We will always work closely with Turkey as the "RoC" is with Greece. You don't like it....Tuff. You should have come to save us from murdering Greeks when you had the chance and not offer us false scenarios of a fatal future from which you want to save us from this time. We have our problems and we will deal with them as befits any independent republic.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

I am old enough to be cynical. My teachers at school in Holloway London had told me that happens, you grow cynical as you get older. Now I know.

From my point of view it is clear that everyone has a hidden agenda. Turkey professes care for the welfare of the Turkish Cypriots, but its actions say otherwise. There was a Turkish plan just as bad as the Akritas, the KIP plan to force Turkish Cypriots to exclude all others from their affairs. I read about it from documents submitted to the British Parliament. It was then I understood the reason for the attacks on our area in Nicosia in 1958.

Developments since 1974 show the true intents of Turkey. The area is under the real control of the army. As for Greece, it supposefly cares for the Greek Cypriots and the only thing it does these days is to exalt Cypriot independence, ie dont call us we'll call you.

In 1974 I believe, but cannot yet prove, that the deal was double union. The unexpected resistance by the Greek Cypriots to the coup, the fall of the junta due to the mutiny of one Greek division commander in Greece (General Davos), forced the junta to resign. The plan collapsed and Turkey grabbed a chance to implement Attila II. The one man who can verify this view, the top junta man is in jail and refuses to talk. The Parliamentary findings known as the Cyprus File are confidential and locked away.

After 1974 there was another unforeseen development. The Greek Cypriot economic miracle which changed the game, Cypriots did not need Greece after all. Till we get to the EU accession which changes things yet again.

Against this background it is natural for Greek Cypriots to have their own hidden agenda. The primary goal being survival on the island as a community. After that night in Burgenstock, listening to the statements made by each side it was obvious that the above are valid conclusions. So my point is not one of accept it because this is the way it is. It is more to undersand the hidden agendas everyone has. Until the hidden goals become openly stated desires on the negotiation table we will be treading water.

[Viewpoint]

Nikitas and Zan great posts, not read such balanced comments in a long time well done. I have a question for Nilitas, as you say all sides have hidden agendas, what if the GC sides agenda is to take control of the whole island and extend their GC state to the north turning our community rights into just minority rights? Their osmosis approach is a clear indication that they have what they want and their aim is to push this over the border, firstly getting rid of the Turkish army and then dissolving the TRNC, hey presto GC state with Tc as just another minority left to defend for themselves and at the mercy of revenge seeking GCs.

[Oneness]

...their aim ..... firstly getting rid of the Turkish army and then dissolving the TRNC, hey presto GC state with Tc as just another minority left to defend for themselves and at the mercy of revenge seeking GCs.

How do you think the Greek Cypriots are going to push out a 40000 strong army backed up by one of the most arrogant and militarily powerful countries outside the Western world???

I dont see that there is a prevailing desire to get revenge on the TC minority.

There are always exceptions in society, on both sides actually, but I dont see that as a mainstream view. I think most GCs politicians and others with political influence are concerned first to hold on to their individual political power, second, to their protect their and their friend's individual financial interests in the south which they believe, owing to a lack of collective vision, may be compromised by a solution.

Then there are the refugees and people with a goal of an undivided nation, equal rights between members of the Cypriot community and restoration of property rights. People who actually want to share and get along harmoniously with TC's. This latter group of GC's, unfortunately, are in the minority at this point in time.

PS Dont think i'm condoning the Annan Plan. Im not. I do recognise that its essentially been designed to accomodate the various strategic interests of powers outside of Cyprus - Turkey, the USA and Britain.

[EPSILON]

...their aim ..... firstly getting rid of the Turkish army and then dissolving the TRNC, hey presto GC state with Tc as just another minority left to defend for themselves and at the mercy of revenge seeking GCs.

How do you think the Greek Cypriots are going to push out a 40000 strong army backed up by one of the most arrogant and militarily powerful countries outside the Western world???

I dont see that there is a prevailing desire to get revenge on the TC minority.

There are always exceptions in society, on both sides actually, but I dont see that as a mainstream view. I think most GCs politicians and others with political influence are concerned first to hold on to their individual political power, second, to their protect their and their friend's individual financial interests in the south which they believe, owing to a lack of collective vision, may be compromised by a solution.

Then there are the refugees and people with a goal of an undivided nation, equal rights between members of the Cypriot community and restoration of property rights. People who actually want to share and get along harmoniously with TC's. This latter group of GC's, unfortunately, are in the minority at this point in time.

PS Dont think i'm condoning the Annan Plan. Im not. I do recognise that its essentially been designed to accomodate the various strategic interests of powers outside of Cyprus - Turkey, the USA and Britain.

Good points however aa)what means equal rights in an EU member country?
bb)Is the possible solution includes other countries , outside Cyprus , to participate in the control of the Island (Territorial waters, air-space etc)?
cc)Can the result be the same as is in Belgium or in Scotald ourdays? -Each side to request separation-?