Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

..and that will be the Cypriot army will it? - when exactly have you NOT been ruled / governed/ owned/ invaded by 'foreigners'? (except 1960 - 74 - and you cocked that up)

Well, well, well... a lot of cockroaches are popping up from everywhere... especially illegal British ones living in "TRNC"... so how's the GC property your fat arse is sitting on going grandpa?

[Piratis]

Nice quote from the Uk Parliament site...... thanks for the link

'The Greek Cypriot attitude is both sad and foolish. They will never convince the Turkish Cypriots that the massacres did not happen, and until they admit that they did happen, and seek forgiveness, the process of reconciliation cannot begin. There are good people in Southern Cyprus who would be willing to do that, but there are others in powerful positions there who will never admit the truth lest it should undermine the wholly unjustified political position which they have built for the Greek Cypriot Administration in the world'


Of course for 'powerful positions' you could substitute ' on this forum'

And I answered questions on my nationality two years ago.

StuartN, as I have already proved beyond any doubt, what you quote is the result of Turkish propaganda, and not of the UK parliament.

The Turks have killed 1000s and 10s of thousands of people, as recently as 1974, but not only.

It is funny when they kill 1000s, ethnically cleanse 100s of thousands, and then they talk about "massacres" against them, when during the entire inter communal conflict both sides had about the same number of casualties - a few 100s each.

Even the TC propaganda websites, the max number of TC casualties claimed in total is 800 people (about 600 in inter communal conflict and about 200 during the Turkish invasion). During the same period Turks killed over 6000 GCs and ethnically cleansed close to 200.000. And you are trying to present Turks as the victims???

[Nikitas]

The first intercommunal massacre, in the sense that it was the killing of a group of one of the ethnic groups, happened near the village of Guneli. It was a setup, the British patrol stopped a bus of Greek Cypriot civilians, sent the bus away and then let them walk through the fields to their village. They were intercepted and hacked to death by TMT (Turkish fighters). So when people here refer to massacres and atonement they should keep in mind that both communities indulged in massacres, and both harbor killers who were never indicted or even named for their misdeeds. Calling on one side to confess and come clean justifiably raises hackles. What about the killers of the other side? How come they are given absolution in advance?

[Get Real!]

Who is this 'we' you keep referring to ? Who is 'our people' you appeal to ? Who is the 'us' who no-one else will fight for ?

They are all figments of your vivid and inventive imagination. You claim to be able to identify an unbroken thread not just for three or four generations, not just for three or four hundred years even, but for a staggering three and a half thousand years ! In your fantastical history despite invasion, empires, plunder and expulsion some 'band of brothers' (not even Shakespeare had such an imagination as you) remained true to Cyrpus, all else being perfidious and treacherous.

Who and where is this 'band of brothers' who have lived unvanquished, immune to the ebb and flow of history, true Cypriots through and through for three and a half thousand years ? This is something to be very proud of so do tell us where we can meet them ? And in anticipation of your reply, can you first tell us all how many of these untainted historical virgins there are ?

What EXACTLY are you claiming here CopperLine?

[Sotos]

Sotos, I am married into a GC family, and have spent time on both sides of the Island.
I know horrible things happened in 74 but you cannot ignore the things that happened upto the invasion.
I lost 2 family members in ww2 but i do not hate the people of Germany.

I don't believe the GC family thing you said. Does Germany occupy your country?

[hissyfits]

This document led me to the references used. Many are diary enteries, others are copies of official letters and the media reports are world wide (Greek, British, American, Italian and German) all reporting the same accounts of 1963. I also feel that the red cross was a reliable reference.

[Nikitas]

Piratis,

This anglosaxon approach has been tried and proven to be effective in North America. They wiped out the Indians and then made movies and based a whole culture on how the settlers were the victims of these savages. The remnants of the Indians were put on reservations where they are free to live on welfare and die slowly of diabetes and alcoholism.

I keep saying Greek Cypriots will not live on reservations but no one believes me!

[Get Real!]

F**k me, Pass me your rose tinted glasses. I've met enough GC's to realise there will never be solution while there is so many of your stubborn pig headed dinosaurs alive. get you head from up your arse, drag yourself into this decade and stop spouting hatred.
And that is from a neutral point of view.

I don't know about "neutral" but UNEDUCATED is for sure...

[CopperLine]

Piratis and others want to claim that there is an unbroken line of Cypriots for 3,500 years of which tens of thousands remain in Cyprus today. I suppose we're going to have to go round the houses on this one again.

First, unless Piratis is claiming an unbroken blood line then s/he has to define Cypriot some other way such as culture, language, religion and so on.

Second, if Piratis is indeed claiming a bloodline then it should be a simple task to find those pure and uncontaminated Cypriots shouldn't it Piratis ? So despite three and a half millenia of invasion, intermarriage etc, Piratis is claiming that you can still find tens of thousands of these true Cypriots (all in the south, just by chance, and none abroad it seems). But how could you and I tell who these people are ? A blood test ? Different features ? Different attitudes ? Different politics ? But what have those last two got to do with biological/blood lines ?

Third, let's try language. Perhaps this unbroken line is made up of Greek speakers, perhaps that's who Piratis' 10,000 refers to ? Except the Greek of 3,500 years ago bears an extremely tenuous relationship with that of 2007. Moreover most Greek speakers of today would not have a clue what was being said by a Greek speaker of, 500 years let alone of 3,500 years ago. So language as a carrier of identity doesn't do the job either.
(My god, the irony of this : here we are, Piratis, discussing through the medium of English not Greek. That you use the English language here does not mean that you are English. That I speak English, German, Spanish, Portugese, French, Turkish and Greek does not make me English, German, Spanish, Portugese, French, Turkish or Greek

Fourth, let's try culture. Again what is common to people of today and those of 3,500 years ago ? Or a thousand years ago ? Virtually nothing, not even the ritual of the Orthodox church, even assuming that people were held by Orthodox rites. If this unbroken culture how is it that we all have to be 'reminded' of its unbrokenness by your references to bronze age trading through 21st century web links.

Fifth, the idea of a distinct Cypriot people did not emerge until the early 20th century. Those people living in Cyprus 500 years ago, a thousand years ago did not conceive of themselves as Cypriot. If they were not Cypriot until the idea of a Cypriot national people emerged in the 20th century then, logically, one cannot trace a Cypriot line back 3,500 years !
You will not find any textual or other evidence in, say, 1500 where people are saying 'we are the Cypriot people'. You will find lots of evidence pointing out who were regarded as foreigners, whether welcome or not; you will find lots of evidence of peoples speaking different languages; of conveying different cultural mores and customs; but you will not find self-declarations of Cypriotness.

What Piratis and his ilk have to do is invent or imagine an unbroken and pure line for the purposes of excluding others whose politics s/he doesn't like.

[Get Real!]

Piratis and others want to claim that there is an unbroken line of Cypriots for 3,500 years of which tens of thousands remain in Cyprus today. I suppose we're going to have to go round the houses on this one again.

Can you prove the opposite?