Cyprus-Forum.com

[StuartN]

StuartN,

YOu obvioiuisly have not read much of the history of this island. We were free when part of the Byxantine empire. And that empire laste a lot longer than the Ottomans.

From your attitude I guess you would have advised the Americans to stay put and not bother with such banalities as the Bill of Rights, and UDI in Rhdoesia should have been best left alone since what is done is done, and apartheid too is OK since it was a fact. What a pitiful attitude you have going buddy!

Predictable. Did you say 'Part of the Byzantine empire' - that'll be the Eastern Roman empire then won't it? I rest my case.

And as for your second para - You forgot to mention than mankind has (generally) LEARNED from these. What I said was that history is history and can't be undone. Perhaps I should have have made it a little clearer? (buddy)

[Piratis]

Byzantine Empire was a Greek empire with Greek language, culture, population and Greek Orthodox Christianity.

[StuartN]

Byzantine Empire was a Greek empire with Greek language, culture, population and Greek Orthodox Christianity.

Blimey - these people must all be wrong then!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire

because Piratis never is - is he?

[PARAMED]

The Byzantine Empire or Byzantium is the term conventionally used since the 19th century to describe the Greek-speaking Roman Empire of the Middle Ages, centered on its capital of Constantinople. The Empire is also known as the Eastern Roman Empire, although this name is more commonly used when referring to the time before the fall of the Western Roman Empire. During much of its history it was known to many of its Western contemporaries as the Empire of the Greeks because of the dominance of Greek language, culture and population.[2] To its inhabitants, the Empire was simply the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων) and its emperors continued the unbroken succession of Roman emperors. In the Islamic world it was known primarily as روم‎ (Rûm, land of the "Romans").

There is no consensus on exactly when the Byzantine period of Roman history began. Many consider Emperor Constantine I (reigned AD 306–337) to be the first "Byzantine Emperor". It was he who moved the imperial capital in 330 from Rome to Byzantium, refounded as Constantinople, or Nova Roma ("New Rome").

Some date the beginnings of the Empire to the reign of Theodosius I (379–395) and Christianity's official supplanting of the pagan Roman religion, or following his death in 395, when the political division between East and West became permanent. Others place it yet later in 476, when Romulus Augustulus, traditionally considered the last western Emperor, was deposed, thus leaving sole imperial authority with the emperor in the Greek East. Others point to the reorganization of the empire in the time of Heraclius (ca. 620) when Latin titles and usages were officially replaced with Greek versions.

In any case, the changeover was gradual and by 330, when Constantine inaugurated his new capital, the process of hellenization and increasing Christianization was already under way. The Empire is generally considered to have ended after the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, although Greek rule continued over areas of the Empire's territory for several more years, until the fall of Mystras in 1460, Trebizond in 1461, and Monemvasia in 1471.

[CopperLine]

Fortunately those people have always been and they continue to be the minority among Cypriots, which is why we still exist on this island for 3500+ years despite the fact that numerous invadors have enslaved our island for centuries.

Compared to our long history on this island and compared to the centuries long occupations we had to survive through several times in our past, the 33 years of occupation that we have today is nothing, and it is sad that some Cypriots are willing to sell off their homeland so easily.

.........The Turks today are trying to illegally wipe out 3500 years of history in northern Cyprus, and you are telling me that when the right time comes we will not be able to reverse 40 or 50 years of illegalities when we will have every right to do so??

I said it many times and I will say it again: Our people have a history that goes back many millennia on this island. It is absolutely stupid to sign away our land just because at this specific era the balance of power favors the Turks.

Yes, we are small and weak. And this is one more reason why we have to keep fighting for what is ours. Nobody else is going to fight for us. If we start signing away our lands to the foreign invadors, then within a few centuries we would have signed off our whole island.

Piratis

Who is this 'we' you keep referring to ? Who is 'our people' you appeal to ? Who is the 'us' who no-one else will fight for ?

They are all figments of your vivid and inventive imagination. You claim to be able to identify an unbroken thread not just for three or four generations, not just for three or four hundred years even, but for a staggering three and a half thousand years ! In your fantastical history despite invasion, empires, plunder and expulsion some 'band of brothers' (not even Shakespeare had such an imagination as you) remained true to Cyrpus, all else being perfidious and treacherous.

Who and where is this 'band of brothers' who have lived unvanquished, immune to the ebb and flow of history, true Cypriots through and through for three and a half thousand years ? This is something to be very proud of so do tell us where we can meet them ? And in anticipation of your reply, can you first tell us all how many of these untainted historical virgins there are ?

[StuartN]

No reply yet...........

[Joff]

1 question, Why did the Turkish Army invade in 1974. was it unprovoked? or was it due to actions in the decade leading up to 74?

[Piratis]

CopperLine, we are the same people that the Turkish invadors found when you first invaded us, and we have been the same for 1000s of years.

Here is how it started:

After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.

Here is how it was right before you came, with our previous rulers:

During the long Lusignan period and the eighty-two years of Venetian control, foreign rulers unquestionably changed the Cypriot way of life, but it was the Cypriot peasant with his Greek religion and Greek culture who withstood all adversity. Throughout the period, almost three centuries, there were two distinct societies, one foreign and one native. The first society consisted primarily of Frankish nobles with their retinues and Italian merchants with their families and followers. The second society, the majority of the population, consisted of Greek Cypriot serfs and laborers. Each of these societies had its own culture, language, and religion. Although a decided effort was made to supplant native customs and beliefs, the effort failed.

Here is what you did to us when you first came:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

And here we are today, despite all we have been through. We are still here and nothing that you do can remove us from our homeland.

(all quotes from your American friends: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cytoc.html )

[Piratis]

1 question, Why did the Turkish Army invade in 1974. was it unprovoked? or was it due to actions in the decade leading up to 74?

The Turkish army invaded because they were always planing to capture all or at least part of Cyprus for their own geopolitical reasons (similar to the ones that UK has and forced us to give them 2 huge bases or else...). Thats the why.

If you are interested about the excuse they gave, it is the same excuse that Hitler used to invade Czehoslovakia, to supposedly protect the Turkish minority. The truth is that in 1974 no TC was harmed until the Turkish invasion had started. The intercommunal conflict was between 63 and 68, 6 whole years earlier, and both sides had a few 100s of casualties, a number comparatively small compared to the 1000s and 10s of thousands of murders that the Turks committed against us.

So stop looking for lame excuses to cover the simple fact that small Cyprus has fallen a victim of invasion by the much more powerful Turkey.

[Joff]

F**k me, Pass me your rose tinted glasses. I've met enough GC's to realise there will never be solution while there is so many of your stubborn pig headed dinosaurs alive. get you head from up your arse, drag yourself into this decade and stop spouting hatred.
And that is from a neutral point of view.