Cyprus-Forum.com

[pantheman]

We all respect everyones democratic right to express their viewpoint,even if we disagree with them sometimes,but using abusive and foul language like the last person did is not only offensive but also displays a lack of self-control and maturity!

get stuffed. You started this in the first place, what did you expect to get by your original post ?

A pat on the back? you need to wake up, i am mature and in control, its just that some peope don't understand the nicities of life and the only know the filth with which they preach.

Please just spare me the psychological rubbish, this is a very sensitive subject for many of those that lost family and property and i am one of those, but taken lightly by the foreigners such as yourself that want to make a laughing stock of it.

Go talk to Joff and hissyfits they are the ones that need to understand not me. I will continue to post in the tone of which others are insulting my country and if you don't like it, you know what you can do. After all this is what you said "We all respect everyones democratic right to express their viewpoint" isn't it.

Have a nice day

[cymart]

It seems you can see reality too and that makes a nice change here!

[cymart]

My father-in-laws family originate from a beautiful mixed village in the Karpass peninsula where both the Greek and Turkish Cypriots lived peacefully together until problems started in 1963.Despite this,things recovered quite well until 1974 and even after then they managed to cope with the situation until most of the Greek-Cypriots were expelled in 1976,leaving only about 20 who have now dwindled through natural mortality to just one elderly couple.All the family now live abroad in England and other countries but we have visited the village on several occasions since 2003 and know the family from Turkey who now live in the family house etc.Until the referendum,they openly said they were prepared to go back to Turkey in exchange for the 10.000 euros per family which was supposedly going to be part of the deal,even though they had children who were born in the village house,just as generations of my wifes fathers family had been and who regarded Cyprus as their natural home.But recently they have built an extension to the house and installed a satellite dish on the roof etc. and the implications are pretty obvious.They told me frankly that as this side voted 'no' they no longer expect a solution and therefore now regard the house as theirs.If the much bedevilled Annan Plan had gone through, a proportion of the G.C. population would have had the right to return to their villages including everyone over 65.The Turkish Cypriots there are equally bitter as they hoped the immigrants would leave and they had no ojection to their G.C. neighbours coming back instead.The countryside and atmosphere of the village are still as lovely as ever and the people have always welcomed us without exception whenever we go there,but coming back here is torture,especially when you know that many people around you on this side don't give a damn about the places in the north and you feel angry,not just with Turkey but also with all the hypocrites and 'pseudo patriots' you see here driving around in their flashy Mercedes etc. while they pretend they are 'struggling for a just solution' etc etc!Don't make me puke!Going to the north may be upsetting enough for some people,but believe you me,coming back is worse when you realise how hopeless things have become and look around you!

[Get Real!]

My father-in-laws family originate from...

I don’t know what kind of “GC” family would accept scum like you… just GET OUT of Cyprus. This place is NOT for you.

[cymart]

I also have Cypriot nationality and a Cyprus passport so I have as much right to be here as you do!I bet you would like to know my name?Even if you did though,what could you do,or do you plan to send the Russian mafia after me etc?

[Piratis]

cymart, are you 100% Cypriot?


Lets talk openly mate. The people that voted "yes" might have done so for several different reasons. We have democracy and it was their choice.

However what I noticed is that the majority of the fanatical "yes" supporters, who are now bitter for the democratic choice of the Cypriot people, are some of the people that with Annan plan would get their property back (or hoped for a big compensation) and are also not very attached to Cyprus.

Basically for them it was a matter of money. Get the money, and screw everything else. Now I can understand this attitude, and such feelings can be perfectly natural, and I do not blame you. I simply admire those other refugees, the majority of them, who truly love their homeland and they do not put a price-tag on the towns and villages of their ancestors.

So nobody can blame you for your support for that plan, but it would be better if you are open about the reasons why you support that plan in such a fanatical way, instead of trying to undermine the Cypriot president, and Greek Cypriots as a whole, hoping that in this way you will help those foreigners that want to force this plan on us against our democratically expressed will.

Just remember that unlike you, Bananiot and some others, most of us have lived their whole lives in Cyprus and we want to continue doing so. We want to have a stable state, democratic, with a good economy, where there will not be discriminations among the people that will inevitably lead to more conflicts and bloodshed.

I am sorry but the Annan plan would not give these things to us and we had every right to reject it. The Annan plan would create some experimental Frankenstein kind of governing that would immediately destroy our economy and would definitely collapse within a few years, living us as with no state or anything else. Beyond that I don't think I even need to repeat the how unfair that plan was in terms of land distribution and power sharing.

So instead of attacking us for doing what was for the benefit of Cyprus as a whole (albeit maybe not for the immediate financial interests of a few people) you should attack those that are responsible for the illegalities against you and Cyprus as a whole.

The attitude of "I will help the enemies of Cyprus to force their plans on Cyprus against the will of the great majority of Cypriots just because it suits my personal interests" is very very wrong and unethical, and it is sad you can not understand this.

So lets talk openly, and stop trying to harm Papadopoulos with mud throwing and lies. Doing so simply reveals the lack of any real political arguments, and the fact that you want to avoid discussing the true motives that made you a fanatical Annan plan supporter.

[Piratis]

I also have Cypriot nationality and a Cyprus passport so I have as much right to be here as you do!

Sure. But how much do you love this island?

For example did you serve 2+ years in the Cyprus army like we did?

I know some people that would rather live abroad instead of giving 2 years of their lives for their homeland. Actually I know some that they wouldn't even give 6 months.

[cymart]

I am a born pacifist and would never carry a weapon against anyone but am quite o.k. about doing voluntary work etc. and have done this before in various countries.

I am not by any means a fanatical supporter of the Annan Plan as you allege and in fact only today talked to someone here in Paphos who also voted 'yes.'He is from a village nearby and has no land or property in the north but did so because he,like me saw it as a unique opportunity for us to take back something from the Turks due to international pressure and which they had captured by force and which he doubts will come again!Furthermore he said that many people from this town told him they would vote 'no' because they feared the price of their land etc. would go down if places like Varosha re-opened and the refugees left etc. and not out of 'patriotism' as some people keep insisting!Basically he said it was all 'symferon' and that especially in Paphos where everything is done with 'rousfeti' and village societies are still very old-fashioned most of them support Papad. because he uses this system and this is what suits them!Especially when so many of them have seen their properties increase in value here so much since 1974,he assured me that they will never vote for any change in the status quo.He is deeply ashamed of this situation and said that is why he hopes we will elect someone else in Febryary 2008.Like he also remarked, this mentality and practice is what is destroying Cyprus and even if we suceed in getting back Varosha and a few villages now it will be a miracle!
And that is why I have comne to start hating this town too!

[Piratis]

Cymart don't tell me that if they simply didn't give you a gun you would accept to sacrifice 26 months of your life to live in some old house, without airconditioning in summer, without hot water in many occasions in winter, right in the middle of nowhere next to the cease fire line and be allowed to visit your home a couple of evenings a month. If they had asked you to do such thing you would run back to the UK, please don't deny it.

So your reply was more like "yes I only care about the money, but everybody else does as well because some villager told me so". Well, whats important from this is your indirect admission about your own motives.

I do not doubt that there are some people as that villager of yours described, but they are only a small minority. Just like we have some refugees that care just about the money, while we also have some others (the majority) who care most about their country (e.g. DT. Kifeas, Sotos - who are refugees), the same goes for non refugees. Further more, the great majority of the non-refugees would love to see the prices of houses going down, since due to the increases during the last years they can not afford to buy their own house anymore. You are talking as if all non-refugees are unethical and rich land owners

The fact is cymart that the Annan plan was not good for Cyprus, and Cypriots rightly rejected it. Yes, there are some that voted "yes" or "no" based on their self-interests. But fortunately those people are a small minority.

If a good solution for the Cyprus problem comes and some people reject it for their own financial interests, then be sure I will be as critical against them, as I am today against you. What is certain is that when that day comes, what those people will vote will not matter, and either they like it or not they will have to accept the decision of the majority. And thats exactly what you have to do today as well, and fight with us for a solution that will be good and fair for all, instead of trying to bring back that or a very similar to that plan and force it on the Cypriot people against their will.

[cymart]

Everyone knows that having a Cypriot army is a joke because it could never be used against Turkey etc.Millions of pounds are wasted every year on defence that could be put to much better uses such as hospitals,improved pensions etc etc.So why not do the sensible thing and just tell the world that you are setting a deadline for unilateral disarmament,while at the same time calling on the powers to be to get Turkey to finally withdraw their army from here,at least according to a fixed timetable?In return say you accept the other Turkish Cypriot demands for a solution and will also accept a U.N. or E.U. force to take charge of security in whatever numbers are deemed internationally necessary and are are also mutually approved by both communities!This would call Ankaras bluff if they are not actually just using Cyprus for strategic reasons because there are no reasonable grounds on which they could refuse such a proposal....
As my wifes uncle said to me when we visited Karpasia,years ago he remembers talking to a senior British Army officer who said that as 47%of the worlds wealth lies in this very sensitive area of the world due to Middle east oil etc. it is obvious that the major powers will do whatever they want in the area so it makes sense for the smaller countries to try to appease them.He then remembered how Makarios turned down firstly the Radcliffe proposal in the 50's because Grivas had already landed here,and then later refused to agree to a base in Karpasia for the Americans and NATO because he insisted Cyprus was non-aligned etc..Either of these options would have guaranteed security for Cyprus and we would not be in the mess we are in now with the Americans having their facilities in both the north and south while we gained nothing in returnand lost some of the best parts of the island !Geo politics are as essential to understand as local politics and it seems that many people here still seem to know very little about how the world at large operates.
Reflecting on this,we looked silently at the village and the forest beyond it and the tragedy of our plight today!