Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Nicos Rolandis' commentary are those of a latter-day Cassandra : fated to accurately foresee but then fated to be ignored. A Greek tragedy indeed.

[Piratis]

What we see in Cyprus today is not new.

For example during the Ottoman rule many Cypriot defeatists had changed religion and become Muslims in order to pay less taxes and be treated better.

Fortunately those people have always been and they continue to be the minority among Cypriots, which is why we still exist on this island for 3500+ years despite the fact that numerous invadors have enslaved our island for centuries.

Compared to our long history on this island and compared to the centuries long occupations we had to survive through several times in our past, the 33 years of occupation that we have today is nothing, and it is sad that some Cypriots are willing to sell off their homeland so easily.

Some ignorant people say that if there is no solution in the next few years that partition will be supposedly "cemented". This is nonsense. The Turks today are trying to illegally wipe out 3500 years of history in northern Cyprus, and you are telling me that when the right time comes we will not be able to reverse 40 or 50 years of illegalities when we will have every right to do so??

I said it many times and I will say it again: Our people have a history that goes back many millennia on this island. It is absolutely stupid to sign away our land just because at this specific era the balance of power favors the Turks.

Yes, we are small and weak. And this is one more reason why we have to keep fighting for what is ours. Nobody else is going to fight for us. If we start signing away our lands to the foreign invadors, then within a few centuries we would have signed off our whole island.

So stop looking only at the short term and see what is better for our island in the long term. And even if you have some personal interests in closing the Cyprus Problem as fast as possible, remember that above all is Cyprus, and that putting your own personal interests above our island amounts to treason.

[cymart]

Unfortunately,anyone in Cyprus who dares to tell the truth nowadays is verbally'pilloried' and abused,as you have seen from some of todays postings.Maybe the links here at both the highest and the lowest levels with Putins Russia are not just about dirty money after all and we will soon have a similar regime where anyone who dares to speak up against the government is branded a 'traitor in the pay of enemy foreign powers' etc!In Russia they have even recently started putting dissidents in mental hospitals once again as they did during the Soviet era!!I wonder what the E.U. would have to say if we started doing that here too!As for any reporters who try to investigate corruption and other official mis-doings,ask Anna Politkovskayas relatives what happened to her.....

[cymart]

Living on hope can result in inspiration,but living on illusion will only lead to disillusionment!Or maybe you have discovered the secret formula for reversing the flow of recent history-if so I would patent it because you are very,very lucky!
If the rest of the Greek-Cypriots felt as you do,there would be nobody at the cabarets etc. driving around in luxury cars and wasting their money at Shacolas latest monstrosity etc etc.Instead they would all be at the green line 24 hours a day in protest or abroad lobbying the powers that be in protest and demanding action!And if they did this I would back them 100% on principle but instead they have arrogance and no humility,a religion but no spirituality and money but no sense of value... and this is reflected in Cyprus every day!And no vision of the future!

[Piratis]

cymart, what "truth" would you say to Cypriots in 1600 when Cyprus was part of the mighty Ottoman empire and there was absolutely no prospect of liberation and freedom?

Would you maybe ask from Cypriots to simply capitulate, stop being Greek, become Muslims and start to talk in Turkish, so they could at least pay less taxes and be treated better?

Yes mate, the times are difficult, but asking from people to sign off their lands it is treason, no matter how you see it. What we should do is to keep fighting for our lands and our rights, just like we have done during the last 3500 years and which is why we managed to survive on this island.

Capitulation is not for us. Forget about it. We are determined to fight on, and this is what we will do. Our enemies should know that we will fight them back when the right chance will arise, and that we will liberate our island either they like it or not. All we have to do until then is simple: Not to sign away our lands and our rights to the Turks.

[halil]

Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!

Partitionist HALİL

And

KİFEAS.......................

Distasteful exhibition, Halil. You should be ashamed of yourself. There are many people suffering because of your stupid desire for partition.

Phoenix,
Didn't you notice with your comments and ideas u are also helping for separation too .
you are not angel too my dear friend . try to read your writings again and again. At least at my post i don't hate Greek People . İ just trying to show u what the Turkish Cypriots are doing , thinking or what kind of the news they are having at their side.with onesided talks or news None Cypriots will not understand what other else's are going on in Cyprus.We the media people have to write others ideas as well.Than u can think and exercise something in the good ways , not always blaming one side. As long as u do blame one side you will end up with nothing. situation will be forever.

[DT.]

Living on hope can result in inspiration,but living on illusion will only lead to disillusionment!Or maybe you have discovered the secret formula for reversing the flow of recent history-if so I would patent it because you are very,very lucky!
If the rest of the Greek-Cypriots felt as you do,there would be nobody at the cabarets etc. driving around in luxury cars and wasting their money at Shacolas latest monstrosity etc etc.Instead they would all be at the green line 24 hours a day in protest or abroad lobbying the powers that be in protest and demanding action!And if they did this I would back them 100% on principle but instead they have arrogance and no humility,a religion but no spirituality and money but no sense of value... and this is reflected in Cyprus every day!And no vision of the future!

They are arrogant you say....These people with arrogance, used their arrogance to think that despite the fact we've lost our homes and our land we can re-build this island.
They have no humility you say.....Come say this to my grandfathers face who was a rich landowner yet worked every job he could get once he lost his land in Morphou.
They have no spirituality you say.....when the first thing they did when they came back was to arrange from their own money and not from the churches to build their Saints church in the south. WHY? Because they believed that at least with my towns saint with me this place will feel less foreign.
This money but no sense of value you're mumling about is for the thousands like my dad who lost everything and went to live in the middle of the f****ing desert for 20 years and came home wealthy bringing their cash with them and investing it in this economy. They made their fortunes twice my friend and you can kiss my arse before you tell me these heroes have no sense of value.

These are just a few examples of the resilience these people have shown. If you want to prove a point about the Annan plan and why you wanted to accept it then find some other way to do it without including your High Judgement on the moral fibre of these people.

[tcklim]

This is a very different age we live in Piratis, we are not being conquered by countless different countries anymore. This situation is far more dangerous than you realize.

But let's just envisage that your so-called struggle (which is existant nowhere realistically, simply objecting to any attempt at dialogue does not constitute a struggle and neither does banter on the cyprus-forum) bears fruit. Please describe to me a scenario by which we can achieve a full return to the 1960 constitution you hate so much but is apparently the lesser of 2 evils.

Under which circumstances do you see all greek-cypriot refugees returning to their homes? Do you believe that once the generation that suffered through the invasion has passed on, that their songs and daughters will abandon their materialistic lives down south, pack up and move north.... do you truly envisage the redistribution of the TC population to be hassle-free among the GC's? Do you truly envisage a sudden return to peace and harmony in this circumstance (and I say "return" very loosely, seeing as there wasn't much peace and harmony to begin with).

I am just trying to paint a picture of a scenario whereby I see this happening. Will we all bring down our greek and turkish flags and live in harmony under the Cyprus flag?

The ONLY possible way this could happen, i believe, is that if your nostradmus-like predictions of the north being overrun by mainland settlers and the TC's all leave and therefore, stop caring. In that scenario, Turkey would not be too fussed if their political gain of the EU outweighs their withdrawal from Cyprus... but again this will not happen because like it or not, TC's are Cypriots as much as you and me and they will not abandon Cyprus either.

[Piratis]

tcklim, today is not much different than before.

If there is something different today is the fact that today we are actually in a better position to fight for our rights and our lands than when we were under the British, Ottomans, Venentians etc, since today we at least have part of our country free, and we have International law on our side, which might not be helpful now, but it will be critical once the balance of power will stop to favor Turkey.

So if our ancestors did not capitulate under far worst conditions, and we have managed to survive for 1000s of years, then I really don't see how some people can suggest that today we should just capitulate and sign away our lands and rights.

If you can not picture a scenario of how Cyprus can be liberated then you simply suffer from political myopia. If you lived in the 17th century I am sure you wouldn't be able to see how the Ottoman rule would be over, or that an independent Greek state could be created. Or in the 80s you couldn't picture a scenario where Latvia, which has a 30% Russian minority, could become independent from the nuclear USSR.

Just because you can not picture a scenario this does not mean it will not happen. If nothing else history shows that many rulers have passed over Cyprus, but in the end it is the Cypriot people (Greek Cypriots) who are always here and nobody managed to permanently take any part of our island away from us.

What is certain is that the balance of power does change, and that in the future we will be in a much better position if we maintain the legal right over the northern part of Cyprus, as opposed to signing it away with some capitulation agreement like Annan plan.

[Nikitas]

It is apparent that most people here studied political history but very little military history. Without being a warmonger I can say that one seemingly insignificant technolgical advance can make whole weapons systems obsolete. The military advantage that Turkey has is largely based on a current paradigm, that relies heavily on troop numbers, air force and navy that can act unopposed. If the air and naval power are cancelled out the balance shifts dramatically. There are technical advances available now that can do just that, and soon these will be available to all nations that can afford them.

When this happens, regardless of whether Cyprus acquires these new systems or not, the balance of power changes and all parties will be more willing to talk.

As far as the "realists" here who are proposing accepting the new realities, canthey talk plainly please and tells us exactly how you accept new realities without accepting what is essentially partition? Kifeas has put it very well and often when he says if partition is on the cards then lets face the situation honestly and seek an equitable distribution of territory, this 37-63 deal is just not going to fly! Or is there some other content to theis "realist" approach that escapes me?