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A stark reality many of us don't see

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:38 pm

Kifeas wrote:
zan wrote:As predicted by many, partition is inevitable. I don't 100% blame the "RoC" for fighting part of the way but a lack of realisation as to what is happening around them and how the situation is changing, is just pure negligence.

The thing now is to look to have good relations between the two sides. We can't keep on going at each other like this for ever. There is no reason why we can't still work together as an island albeit with two administrations. We don't have to be enemies and the border can be just an administrative one and not the point of tension. If in the future unification is possible then let it be done with respect and trust and not forced by one side or the other. I don't see partition as a negative, given the circumstances. We need to grow up and take responsibility for our future.


Of course Zan! Why would YOU see partition as negative, if this is what you have been dreaming all along? Why would you see partition as negative, if it will allow you to "gain" the very best 1/3 of the island, while you only account for 18%? Of course Zan, after all, this is what your chauvinist leadership has fought for 50 years now! However, my dear mentally retarded fellow, the end result will be the destruction and disappearance of your community from Cyprus, in a flood of Turkish settlers and mainland Turkish domination; while the legalization of the occupation and the status quo will continue remaining an unfulfilled dream of yours, since none of the nations that matter in this world will ever dare to recognize the grabbing of another EU country's territory!

PS: This is why I hate idiots like Nicos Rolandis so much! I hate them because, even though the reason they write all the above nonsense and absurdities is mainly for internal consumption among the GC public, so that they scaremonger them in voting down one candidate leader in favor of another in the coming elections; they end up giving false and fake hopes to imbeciles like Zan and other sworn partitionists!


What will you do if this does happen?, the signs are in place you may chose to ignore them but what will people like you do when partition is formalized?
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Re: A stark reality many of us don't see

Postby halil » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:53 pm

tcklim wrote:Death chamber: will the telephone ring?
By Nicos A Rolandis

IN MY letter of resignation from the post of Minister of Foreign Affairs dated September 21, 1983 and addressed to then President Spyros Kyprianou in the wake of the rejection by our side of the “Indicators” Initiative of UN Secretary-General Perez de Cuelliar, I wrote inter alia:
“We have encouraged the UN Secretary-General to proceed with his initiative and try to resolve the intractable and dangerous deadlock we are facing. The Secretary-General on August 8 [1983] came up with some ideas on certain aspects of the Cyprus problem…

Immediately after, we started wavering. There was a lot of talk about a trap, about partitionist tendencies, about national hazards – which in reality did not exist. The Secretary-General, who was until then our good friend, became our enemy – that was the fate of all those who were implicated with our problem in the past. However, how shall we ever manage to find a solution? Through prayers? Through requests for help addressed to God? Through resolutions? Or shall we most probably be faced one day with the final partition of our country (if not with something worse)… The President of the Republic of Greece Mr Constantinos Karamanlis in his official speech, during your state visit to Greece last April, said a few things which may have brought about some unpleasant memories or conclusions. What he spoke however, was the truth. If we listen to what he said, there will be probably those who will mediate with Ankara [for a solution]. Otherwise we shall be left alone with our slogans, our rhetoric, our patriotic oration and with the Turkish occupation.”

I resigned from my ministerial post… Twenty-four years have elapsed since then, but if I had to write that letter today, I would have written exactly the same things. Fifty-five days after my letter of resignation, we had the Unilateral Declaration of Independence of the Turkish Cypriot “state” (November 15, 1983). Mr Kyprianou would not believe me when I warned him that I had information about the spinoff of the “state” if we rejected the “Indicators”. He had his own information from Romanian President Ceausescu that such a thing could not happen. In exactly the same way Makarios would not believe back in 1963, that his attempt to amend the Constitution would be doomed and that it would cause the disaster which ensued. Makarios also would never believe or accept, despite the so many warnings that he had, that a Greek coup was imminent in 1974 and he failed to take the necessary precautions. Similarly Tassos Papadopoulos does not believe today that his policy of the past four and a half years on Cyprus has led to partition. He will realise it when we tumble deep into the abyss.

During all these years, in parallel to our “storied” political judgment, we had a number of politicians who proved to be champions in the field of leading the people into a lethargic state, through a series of monotonous, senseless, lukewarm, faded, “patriotic” phrases about resistance, bastions, strongholds and struggle. And the people also proved to be champions in swallowing the above preaching as long as favouritism, graft and benefits from power were on their side. Of course, when things turned sour, the politicians ran for cover in foreign embassies to save their skin, while the people paid the bitter price… and God help Cyprus…
It gets really tragic when one considers carefully where we ended up, by rejecting over the years seven initiatives on Cyprus: The Anglo-American-Canadian Plan and six UN Plans, all of them unanimously endorsed by the Security Council. All the above Plans were characterised by us as “monstrosities”, “cursed” and “leading to a breakup of the Republic of Cyprus”. It appears that all of them out there in the international community have been trying to destroy us. So, through blunders, omissions and sins of both communities, we reached the “Chamber of Death”. We reached partition, a punishment we assigned to our country.

What we lost and what we suffered have occurred almost in their totality during the past four to five years: we lost, probably irreversibly, Famagusta, after we rejected seven initiatives for its return. It appears Morphou is gone definitively (recent statements of Talat exclude now the possibility of return). We have lost the 50-odd villages and the nine per cent of the territory, where 90,000 refugees would have gone back (other refugees could return under Turkish Cypriot administration). We lost Karpasia. We are left with a 40,000 strong Turkish army of occupation, which would have departed and been replaced by a Greek and a Turkish contingent of 950 and 650 men respectively. The Turkish settlers have stayed in Cyprus and their number increased from 130,000 in 2004 to 200,000 in 2007. The unity of Cyprus, the one sovereignty, one citizenship and one international personality are also gone. We have lost the properties of the refugees, on which thousands of buildings have been erected and sold to foreign citizens (truly, how, when and by whom will these properties be ever recovered?). The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) is about to legalise the Properties Compensation Committee in the north. A contact group between the European Parliament and the “Turkish state” has been created. Elected Turkish Cypriot parliamentarians have been officially admitted as observers by the Council of Europe. The Tymbou (Ercan) Airport is since 2004 a legal port of entry for all Cypriot, European and foreign passengers. A ferry link has started between Syria and the occupied port of Famagusta. “Direct trade” with the Turkish Cypriots is in the wings, it is supported by everybody in the European Union. There are huge investments in the north in the field of tourism. Papadopoulos is the only President of the Republic since 1960, who has never been admitted at a meeting with the President or the Secretary of State of the US – the only superpower in the world. Turkish Cypriot leader Talat had many high level meetings in Washington DC (with Condoleezza Rice), Brussels, London, Pakistan, Azerbaijan and elsewhere. It is the first time that a Turkish Cypriot “Foreign Minister” has meetings with high officials in many countries. Italian parliamentarians acquire Turkish Cypriot citizenship.

Judges of the Turkish Cypriot “state” are appointed as judges of the ECHR, despite our objections. European Commission Vice-President Verheugen said in 2004 that we had cheated him. In December 2006 we were humiliated in Brussels (the pro-government Cypriot press described it as the Waterloo of Cyprus). Since 2004 Kofi Annan has ignored and shunned us.

Ban Ki-moon has just found out where Cyprus is on the map. The Islamic Conference has upgraded the Turkish Cypriot community to “Turkish Cypriot state”. The notion of partition has been solidified in recent years, but the average Cypriot does not realise the inherent dangers which it entails. Member of European Parliament Matsakis, elected by DIKO, speaks officially about partition. At the European Council in June 2004, the Cyprus Government, along with all other EU governments, paid tribute to Turkey for her constructive stance on Cyprus. The Swedish government summons a conference on Cyprus ignoring us, which causes embarrassment. The German Parliament gets closer to the north with some signals of preliminary recognition. Former Foreign Minister of the Netherlands Van den Broek became Van den Turk for us. Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn became our “enemy”. Influential European leaders like Borrell, Martens and Mrs Rothe, who used to be our good friends, became “enemies” as well. “Enemy” too is Matyas Eorsi the Council of Europe Rapporteur on Cyprus. Even Cypriot Commissioner Marcos Kyprianou has distanced himself from our policy on Cyprus. There have been statements in recent years by European leaders that we should not have acceded to the EU without a prior solution of the Cyprus problem. There have been initiatives for the recognition by international athletic organisations of the Turkish Cypriot Football Federation. Tenor Jose Carreras sings in occupied Salamis despite our protests. Our refugees, fed up with our incoherent policy, have started the process of exchange of properties between Greek and Turkish Cypriots through the “Committee” in the north.

But most importantly, confidence between many Greek and Turkish Cypriots has evaporated since 2004. So with whom will Greek Cypriots dance the tango of reunification?

As stated above, it has been proved that our political assessments have been perennially wrong, hence our present predicament. In exactly the same way, our assessments at the present time are wrong as well. We do not realise that we stand before the “Chamber of Death”, before partition.

In the USA there are Death Chambers in almost every State. A telephone lies next to the Chamber. If it rings, it may convey the message of reprieve. Is there anybody who may cause the telephone to ring in our case? Anybody to save Cyprus?

I believe the telephone in our case may be activated only by the people of Cyprus in the elections of next February. The people are the ones who may dump partition. Who may restore life and hope. And as hope is the last to perish, it may still be alive.
NICOS A. ROLANDIS
POLITICAL BUREAU


-- How I wish he would reclaim the same post today. It's a stark reality that - judging by many posts here - noone can see or admit to. :cry:


This the basic summary of the last position of the Cyprus Problem.
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:44 pm

Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:48 pm

Kifeas wrote:Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!


Your not answering the question what if he is right and you are wrong???
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:49 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!


Your not answering the question what if he is right and you are wrong???


He is right in what, VP?
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:54 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!


Your not answering the question what if he is right and you are wrong???


He is right in what, VP?


"We reached partition, a punishment we assigned to our country"
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:57 pm

tcklim wrote:You can attack him all you like, it doesn't change the fact that the article is dead-on accurate and full of facts that demonstrate the direction we are going. The only fools are the ones who have been warned countless times of these signs, yet remain steadfast in their conviction that they alone are correct while the rest of the world is wrong.

Anyone dissenting from the views of Tpap is considered an enemy. Anyone discussing negotiations with the TC side is considered an enemy. The reality is there is no realistic solution that can be implemented to appease the delusional hardliners currently. Face the facts.

I am against partition, but it's all too close for comfort now. And the reason is people such as yourself. Just like donkeys following the dangling carrot on the end of a stick, you will never reach your goal.

Instead, we make friends, deceive them with bs and then turn them into enemies when a solution gets too close for comfort.

It's a sad time for Cyprus.

on another note, how the f*** does this compare to the sale of a 7UP factory...


What is accurate about that article man? The fact that he resigned from Foreign Minister for totally different reasons than those he says? The fact that Italian 'parliamentarians" are not even in the Italian Parliament? The fact that giving them pseudo citizenship by home delivery actually ridiculed the occupation regime and not us? The fact that he accuses the GC side for all the illegalities going on in the occupied? The fact that he says we rejected the Secretar General's set of ideas, which the TC/T side also rejected? The fact that he tries to pass the message the GC side has more than 1/4 of the key for solving the Cyprob as if we are some sort of superpower or something?

The only thing he is right are the possible dangers as long as the current situation is draged in time. Does he think he is the only one who sees those dangers, or does he think he is some sort of Messiah? An honest and wise politician should be able to weigh those dangers and

a)give a precise measure of their validity and possibility to happen
b)be able to offer solutions.

He does neither of the two. For me he is nothing more than a woman who screams like crazy, that she and her children are going to starve, because her husband broke his leg.
Last edited by Pyrpolizer on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:57 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!


Your not answering the question what if he is right and you are wrong???


He is right in what, VP?


"We reached partition, a punishment we assigned to our country"


If he is right that we reached partition? Is this your question?
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:03 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kifeas wrote:Halil, being a partitionist yourself, I am sure you are also very happy and content reading the above article with Rolandie's "findings," just like Zan and VP are! Consequently, why don't you let those of us against partition to have all the worries and concerns? Why do you pretend to also be concerned? I for once, being against partition, do not share Rolandie's views and concerns, and I find his style and line of argumentation very cheap and even dangerous, for it allows partitionists like you to gleefully rejoice!


Your not answering the question what if he is right and you are wrong???


He is right in what, VP?


"We reached partition, a punishment we assigned to our country"


If he is right that we reached partition? Is this your question?


What will people like you do? will you feel you have made the biggest mistake of your lives not taking us seriously? or reading the signs incorrectly??
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Sorry VP, but you make no sense!
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