Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

I think it has been well established that technology doesn't always get the victory everyone expects it to, look at America...

[Nikitas]

On the contrary, it is APPROPRIATE technology in the form of Improvised Explosive Devices and Shaped Explosive Charges that are doing the most damage to the Americans in Iraq today, just as portable rockets did the damage in Vietnam. And it is technology which enables a carrier group like the 6th Fleet to reign supreme in the Mediterranean. Technology and thinking outside the box will do it every time. This crap about bravey and people being born warriors that you often see it just that, crap.

[denizaksulu]

On the contrary, it is APPROPRIATE technology in the form of Improvised Explosive Devices and Shaped Explosive Charges that are doing the most damage to the Americans in Iraq today, just as portable rockets did the damage in Vietnam. And it is technology which enables a carrier group like the 6th Fleet to reign supreme in the Mediterranean. Technology and thinking outside the box will do it every time. This crap about bravey and people being born warriors that you often see it just that, crap.

Hence the famous Turkish song (Koroglu)that goes

"silah icad olundu, mertlik bozuldu" = arms(gun) are invented and bravery has gone. How true.

[Nikitas]

Deniz, that sounds very much like the Cypriot saying "as of the day gunpowder was invented tough guys eat shit"

and correlates with the advertising slogan for Colt: "God created men, Colonel Sam Colt made them equal"

[shahmaran]

Nikitas, if you seriously believe that bravery is not a crucial factor for combat then you are absolutely ridiculous, i suggest you do not mention it before a soldier who has earned numerous medals due to his bravery.

However i am not talking about bravery, although it does play a big role on the ground, where the US forces usually face defeat since their hight tech strategies usually involve distant or air attacks which only take them so far and they have to eventually move in and face their opponents, therefore showing that low tech bravery can be superior to high tech wuss attacks, unless of course anyone is foolish enough to nuke another country ever again.

Plus, you have to understand that there is a vast difference between the mentality of a soldier who is fighting for a paid job abroad and one who is fighting for his/her freedom on their own lands, Turkey has pulled through very serious conflicts and attacks with hardly any technology in the past while leaving her opponents in an utter state of shock with innovative war strategies that had never been seen before, and there is absolutely no reason why she cannot do it again, specially considering the fact that our army is MUCH bigger and MUCH more high tech then ever...

[denizaksulu]

Deniz, that sounds very much like the Cypriot saying "as of the day gunpowder was invented tough guys eat shit"

and correlates with the advertising slogan for Colt: "God created men, Colonel Sam Colt made them equal"

[Nikitas]

Shah,

Read up on modern weapons. A maverick missile engages an enemy plane at 150 miles! The pilot firing the missile cannot see the plane he is shooting down. Where is the bravery in that? I see cold hearted caclulation of data and the push of a button. Tanks engage at night, at distances up to 4 miles, with infra rde imaging and laser guided shells. In some instances when the situation gets "close and personal" some personal courage might be involved, but without clever tactics and the appropriate technology it is hard to inspire bravery.

Read about the battle of Kallipoli, how the Turkish artillery was better deployed and smashed the allied landings. How much bravery does it take to site and direct artillery from several kilometers away? We all like to think our armies are staffed by heroes who can live on a cup of water a week and refuse to give up to the last man etc. For one I would rather rely on guys who have brains and know how to use them.

[shahmaran]

Well unfortunately my friend, brains alone doesn't win any war, and neither does technology, if it did then Iraq and Afghanistan would have been a whole new place by now, and Americans would have walked in and out of Vietnam like on holiday and Turkey today would look something like this:





What do you think stops these super forces from winning against people that have hardly any technology other than the basics, artillery is not exactly anything high tech, so you cant seriously be claiming that the Turkish forces back in WW1 had more technology then the Ozzies, French, British, Italians, Greeks and Armenians put together.

Bravery and brains do the real work, the rest are just tools...

[Viewpoint]

In this age of computer driven warfare many of the old tenets are changing. And in any case I wasn ot referring to a clash between Cyprus and Turkey in my previoius post. What I said is that if there are technical developments around which change the nature of warfare, ie cancel out the advantage that the air force provides, then the negotiating table changes without eiither side actually owning these new weapons. FOr the simple reason that both sides realise that their armies are outmoded and outdated and they change their attitude during negotiations.

This time round the new technical advances are cheap enough for all nations to buy and the changes to warfare are going to be major. Celldar is a passive radar system that covers an area the size of Cyprus for the cost of a simple laptop computer, and that is just one example. Ask any pilots you know how they feel about being tracked on radar they cannot detect and you will know the effect of this simple device.

SO dont everyone get patriotic about who has and has not proven their military might. All nations have victories AND DEFEATS on their scoreboards. There is not a single nation I can think of that has not suffered defeats in its history.

If that makes you feel safer good for you but never forget that Turkey is a force to be reckoned with never under estimate her, it cost you dearly in 1974 and if 800.000 GCs have not learned their lesson and provoke Turkey she will take the necessary action to put in your place EU or no EU. This goes for any nation who provokes war they cannot then cry wolf when they get beaten to a pulp. If thats what you want for your people go ahead and try it...but I do not recommend it.

[zan]

In this age of computer driven warfare many of the old tenets are changing. And in any case I wasn ot referring to a clash between Cyprus and Turkey in my previoius post. What I said is that if there are technical developments around which change the nature of warfare, ie cancel out the advantage that the air force provides, then the negotiating table changes without eiither side actually owning these new weapons. FOr the simple reason that both sides realise that their armies are outmoded and outdated and they change their attitude during negotiations.

This time round the new technical advances are cheap enough for all nations to buy and the changes to warfare are going to be major. Celldar is a passive radar system that covers an area the size of Cyprus for the cost of a simple laptop computer, and that is just one example. Ask any pilots you know how they feel about being tracked on radar they cannot detect and you will know the effect of this simple device.

SO dont everyone get patriotic about who has and has not proven their military might. All nations have victories AND DEFEATS on their scoreboards. There is not a single nation I can think of that has not suffered defeats in its history.

If that makes you feel safer good for you but never forget that Turkey is a force to be reckoned with never under estimate her, it cost you dearly in 1974 and if 800.000 GCs have not learned their lesson and provoke Turkey she will take the necessary action to put in your place EU or no EU. This goes for any nation who provokes war they cannot then cry wolf when they get beaten to a pulp. If thats what you want for your people go ahead and try it...but I do not recommend it.

It is amazing how many people look at things from one side only.....Attack and defence go hand in hand and as soon as a weapon is advanced, one for defence is made also.