Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

If you guys only knew how small a change it takes to gain the advantage over an enemy!

How were the Mongols defeated? By one simple invention called the stirrup. How did the Greek Army win the Balkan Wars, the simple and unplanned adoption of the most modern rifle of its time helped a lot. It is just as possible that one overlooked and small technological change can make mighty armies obsolete. Read up on the latest miliatry tech advances and soon you realise that some things could cancel out modern planes and ships. There is no such thing as a permanently victorious army. The might Turkish army got is ass whipped a lot during the early 20th century. It never fought a full power adversary since then. And for my liking its general wear a lot of decorative stuff and that is not a good sign. Compare them to the Israelis and see the difference. Too much brass is bad for the ass says an old military proverb.

[denizaksulu]

This is preposterous and you are nothing but laughable, this kind of delusions might make you feel safer in your little world, however here, on the side of reality, we call people like you ignorantly happy You claim that technology is important and not important within the same paragraph, what are you drunk?!

If you knew anything about Turkish war history you would know that Turkish army will never bend over before anyone, they built this country with the least prepared army in the world which was mustered together right under the noses of the imperialist arseholes including Greece who was the BITCH of the British and still got crushed miserably, proving that technology does not always equal victory as it is also pretty evident with almost any war America got herself into, they cant even keep Iraq and Afghanistan under control, some of the poorest and least advanced countries in the world, even if they have the help of many other powerful countries including Turkey!

Before you have a premature ejaculation running down your pants about how big and mighty Turkey is read this...

Turkey’s Military Performance in July 1974

One of the stories that use to circulate right after the Turkish invasion of 1974 was about how the invading Turks could have been stopped dead in their tracks had the Greek Cypriots made one military decision over another, or had such and such circumstance been different, ie: the Greek coup causing a split in the National Guard which led to military chaos etc.

At the time I didn’t think much of these claims and would swiftly dismiss them as the working class’ softening of the blow but decades later I was to be enlightened thanks to documents previously held from public domain and now made available.

Immediately after the Turkish invasion the United States Senate sent a team of investigators to Cyprus to write up a report on the consequences of the invasion which included a section titled “COSTS OF THE INVASION TO TURKEY”. An interesting portion of that section follows…

"Nearly 10% of Turkey's military force is now stationed on Cyprus, and there have been heavy logistical and support requirements. Civilian "technicians" and others have also gone to the island. Moreover, there were considerable losses during the invasion. According to responsible military sources in the field, the performance of Turkey's armed forces during the first phase of the invasion was very poor. Although Turkey apparently employed a basic plan its general staff had drafted and perfected over a period of several years, military observers say there was poor operational planning, inadequate communications, and a near total failure of joint operations among Turkish air, sea, and ground forces.

As a result, through tactical errors Turkey lost an estimated 15 aircraft during the invasion. It sank one of its own destroyers. Casualties were considered light, but included some 300 men killed and another 500 wounded. Had there been any substantial Greek Cypriot forces and tanks in the northern part of the island, casualties undoubtedly would have been considerably higher. One military observer suggested, for example, that because the Turkish airborne assault came at too high an altitude, a better organized and equipped Greek Cypriot army could have easily eliminated an entire Turkish airborne regiment swinging helplessly in the air.”

It couldn’t have been easier for Turkey in July 1974 as Cyprus at the time was THE cakewalk of cakewalks and yet her invasion can only be described as a major military disaster which in fact is nothing new…

Turkey has a very poor track record in wars dating back from the Ottoman empire with their first major defeat in the siege of Malta of 1565 where some 35,000 men aboard 110 odd ships were crashed by some 6,000 knights and soldiers stationed there.

Regards, GR.

GR, you could have mentioned the disease ridden island and the lack of any potable water on the island. But still full credit to the Maltese for their endurance during the two sieges. They fared better that the combined forces of thr National Guard, Eoka and the Hellenic forces.

[Nikitas]

Deniz

I am not too fund of the Hellenic Forces but they held up very well at their posts near the Nicosia airport. The post was manned by cooks and admin staff after the dispersal of forces, they were at less than batallion strength and they held back a Turkish brigade backed by tanks and an unopposed air force. They finally had to be bombed into retreat and that was only in the region of a couple of hundre meters with a loss of 80 men.

I am not going to speculate if that happened because they were good or the other guys were bad. But it did happen.

[Nikitas]

oops, fond not fund, my typing is off tonight and I swear I am not drinking, maybe i should start!

[boomerang]

War is not only the the weapon to bring a country to its knees.

Just look at the fall of the soviet union...an economic battle is mother of all weapons...

What turkey do if the US goes ahead and recognises fully the Armenian genocide? Shut the borders and kisk the Americans out?

oh thats gonna show them...

What would happen if the Americans stop all investment flowing in?....oh I know the mighty turkish army is gonna look after you...is this it?

[Nikitas]

Boomerang,

I think that our Turkish and Turkish Cypriot friends see the army differently than we do. It is the ultimate guarantor of the Kemalist secular state and it has a different meaning than an army has for most other nations.

In the recent elections it was regarded as natural for the Armed forces chief to make a statement about the new government's election. Any such move elsewhere would involve immediate resignation.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz

I am not too fund of the Hellenic Forces but they held up very well at their posts near the Nicosia airport. The post was manned by cooks and admin staff after the dispersal of forces, they were at less than batallion strength and they held back a Turkish brigade backed by tanks and an unopposed air force. They finally had to be bombed into retreat and that was only in the region of a couple of hundre meters with a loss of 80 men.

I am not going to speculate if that happened because they were good or the other guys were bad. But it did happen.

I also remember at the time the utter chaos around the airport. I undestand that there was a lot of communication problems. Yet it was well defended. With the guns and / or missiles they managed to shoot down some HAF planes and yes I know the Turks sank one of their own. Such is war. They should ban it.

[phoenix]

Their Histories do not go back much beyond that of Cypriots.

So? if ı say black you will say white can you not see you are deny facts for the sake of it. Your mentality lacks understanding or depth, just snide remarks which will get us nowhere.

Both Indigenous peoples arrived in their respective countries between 12,000 - 15,000 years ago. There are records that date Cypriots to 12,000 years ago. These are the facts you choose to be oblivious to.

Compare that to the 33 years you are so proud to believe your puny "TRNC" has tried to exist for and there is a monumental disparity you fail to grasp.

You can't compare the Indigenous people of Australia and North America with the GCs and Cyprus. They lost their countries a few hundred years ago when such illegalities were not condemned.

Who not? condemning makes it wrong the act and result are still the same, doesnt mean it wont happen in the future.

So you would happily trundle along carrying out condemned illegalities just for the end result. Well that sums up the Turkish mentality.

Also, they lost out to more advanced cultures . . . something that is clearly not the case with our Barbaric Invaders.

This is the response of a biggot.

We have proved time and again that Turkey is still a Barbaric Invader.

Above all, Viewpoint, this remark shows your lack of shame and your true evil nature since you condone the loss of land by the Indigenous People of Australia and North America and are stupid enough to think you can achieve the same and eradicate the GCs.

I do not condone it see you no understanding or comprehension, no one can change history but we have a chnage to shape a future, the lack of vision and desire put forward by GC contibutors is very unimpressive and could not persuade any TCs to start building trust, we have learned our lesson from the past but obviously GCs have not.

Again I reiterate: You condone (denied here purely because of my accusation) the loss of the homelands by the Indigenous Peoples of Australia and North America.

Nothing of your ideology suggests that you would think twice before reenacting the same fate on the GCs.

[Nikitas]

Deniz, war is the ultimate chaos. The military high brass are very good at giving the impression of organization with precision manouvers and a stream of abbreviations. But when you research the matter you realise that they too know that once the "shit starts flying" no one knows exactly how things will turn out. That would explain that the people who least want to start wars are the military themselves, they know! And I agree with you, war should be banned, it is the most destructive, wasteful and expensive activity of maknind.

[Viewpoint]

Asia Minor does not belong to the Turks. There are millions of Kurds that are still under Turkish Ottoman rule there waiting to be liberated.

Your Turkey will fall apart faster than the Ottoman empire did once it will be decided, and that time is coming closer and closer.

The Turks can easily fit on about 1/3rd of what is now Turkey, and considering that non of that land belongs to them in the first place, they should be grateful.