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If...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:13 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:SHHHHH Pyro will hear you post under the influence! Actually he might be right, some people do seem to change personalities, so that must be the explanation.


I'll have you know my character is so complex and undefinable that I could fit into the category of being under the influence . . . BUT I can assure you that I take full responsibility for my weirdness and cannot blame alcohol . . . 8)

Indeed sustained "normality" on my part would indicate dulled senses from alcohol . . . :D



Look here Phoenix, I know I have had a glass of Shiraz, but why you use the same expressions as...........(hic), you do associate with GR too much. His influence is rubbing on you :lol: :lol: :lol: hic :shock:

Do you know how GR defines your beauty and charm. Isnt your old man a tad jelouse?

Was that a glass or a bottle dear Deniz? :lol:


Hi GR, back from the footy. Well done btw. :lol:
Alas only a glass. Ann had the rest :cry: :cry:

Give her my regards... :)
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Re: If...

Postby shahmaran » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:32 am

boomerang wrote:the balance of power does indeed changes and the RoC has a chance to reclaim the occupied areas, what would the partitionists do?

1...accept it and become citizens of the RoC
or
2...Migrate to turkey?

I always wondered about this...


I would literally join the army!
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Re: If...

Postby boomerang » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:58 am

denizaksulu wrote:
boomerang wrote:the balance of power does indeed changes and the RoC has a chance to reclaim the occupied areas, what would the partitionists do?

1...accept it and become citizens of the RoC
or
2...Migrate to turkey?

I always wondered about this...



I'd say they would stay home. They are Cypriots. Maybe the settlers would go back (wishful thinking). But give details of this balance of power and how the North is reclaimed.
Regards


I agree we all Cypriots and they have a right to stay...My question was asking really how they would feel living within the RoC seeing they despise it and what it stands for...I was talking about their feelings more than anything else...

As far as the balance of power, well it was a hypothetical question and it could be achieved in a number of ways...Lets say the US demands it and turkey has no choice but withdraw after this armenian thingie gets escalated...there will be a vaccum and the RoC has to step in and take control...and I don't mean by way of force...It will be a gradual take over...

I have no problem with a unitary system or a true federation myself...When I say federation, I mean something very similar to the OZ system...Its a great system...All states are labour and the federal government is liberal...I always wondered about that... :lol:

Such a system is based on ability
1...to govern the whole country - federal governmant
and
2...different state governments to cater for the local state - state government

In this scenario people are not tied to hard core party lines as they do cross the divide and choose the best representation...Federal and state...

@Vips
it sounds you need a change of undies :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:08 pm

Nikitas
Actually VP on that point of return to property I would imagine that the RoC government will step in and prevent a rush by anyone to get their property back. It could not afford the political cost of a free for all. I guess there would be a reverse operation of the refugee rehousing of the 70s. Also dont forget our powerful land developer class, on both sides, whose interests cannot be overlooked ( I am being cynical but that is how it is). They definitely would not want to see a sudden oversupply of housing so things would have to be controlled. I reckon it would take at least a year if not longer to sort out the final returns of property, and there would be a lot of voluntary exchanges since they would be totally legal in the hypothetical situation we are talking about now.

To administer all this there would have to be a Turkish Cypriot civil service and the irony might be that the TRNC apparatus will have to be left running just to administer things.

In all this I have a wish list. The leaders of both sides asking the British to vacate their bases right away. Within hours rather than days. And crowds from both communities breaking through the perimeter fences to stage sit ins on the runways of Akrotiri. In a hypothetical scenario I can dream!


Have to say this is a very naive response and the mayhem that we fear when the Turkish army factor is removed will bring about civil clashes as Ahmet stays put and Yorgo wants him out, the pent up anger in GCs refugees will reach boiling point and explode with dire consequencies if you are willing to throw both communities into such termoil then you are a danger to the future of this island as I would rather have stirct laws in place to ensure such issues are not left to chance and GC style democracy which could leave TCs at their mercy.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:24 pm

Piratis
It is a matter of when not a matter of if.


If is the title of the thread and more the front runner than the "when" you wish for, you can kid yourself but this doesnt mean people will follow unless they are sheep.

Turkey is an unstable torn country with European Turks, secular Turks, Islamist Turks and Kurds.


You keep claiming this but its still standing and will be fore a very long time after you are long gone. Wishful thinking yet again, your venom for Turkey clouds your biased judgement.


Turks are very greedy not realizing that what they have within Turkey is already way too much for them. They want to take north Cyprus, north Iraq and they have some pan-Turanism vision where they dream to be the leaders.

Turkey exists for the sole reason that it suited some powers to exist. If they try to become too powerful and claim too much for themselves then I predict they will get a few slaps and Turkey will fall apart faster than the Ottoman empire did.

One would think that Turks would not be so stupid. But their recent reaction to the Armenian genocide case proves for once again that they can indeed do very foolish things that will cost them dearly.


Dont worry about Turkey she can and has fought her corner very well, worry about your own mess.

What we have to do is to maintain our rights until the right time. When that right time will come nothing else will matter. Those that say that if 10 or 15 more years pass that the partition will be "cemented" simply don't know what they are talking about. The Turks without having any right they are trying to undo 3500 years of history in northern Cyprus, and you are telling me that we will not be able to undo 40 or 50 years of illegality when we will have absolutely every right to do so? All we have to do until then is simple: Not to be fooled to sign away our lands and rights.


You do exactly that, the Aborginies and Native Americans history goes back further than yours look what happened to them. You can wait for as long as you wish in the hope that things will change to allow you a GC state covering the whole island but as long as we have 37% of our island you have to compromise allowing for TCs to have input in decisions that will effect them negatively and allow them to administer their own area. If you shoudl one day realize that these are not extreme issues that we are asking for we are ready to talk otherwise the current stalemate will continue forever.

As far as the TCs go, the choice will be: 1) Be a minority like every other minority in EU, with their 100% human and democratic rights respected and be 100% equal Cypriot citizens, or 2) move out of Cyprus. We will not seek revenge, but the chance of TCs achieving a better deal will be gone. The best deal TCs could possibly achieve on our loss happened in 1960. They can not have any further gains. It is time for them to realize this and either accept to return to 1960 agreements, or make mutual compromises for a solution that will not be worst (or better) than the 1960 agreements for anybody. TCs have from now until the collapse of Turkey to make the right for them choice


These are choices that concern us, thank you for your concern but we also can stand our ground and wait for a change in the situation just like yourselves whereby things get better for us as the TRNC, things will nto always go your way and the results you may hate and wish you have compromised to find middle ground a united Cyprus.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:58 pm

What I say about Turkey being a torn country is all facts VP. At the very least what is now eastern Turkey will be part of Kurdistan very soon.

Also you keep repeating some nonsense that I want a "GC state" and TCs not to have any input. So I will repeat to you: What I want is a Cypriot state, and the minority of TCs to have the input that proportionately belongs to them.

And we are not any "Aboriginals", we are in fact way more advanced that you in all respects. The only thing Turks have in their advantage is the support of the Americans. Remove that and Turkey will collapse within a decade.
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Postby phoenix » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Viewpoint wrote:You do exactly that, the Aborginies and Native Americans history goes back further than yours look what happened to them.


Their Histories do not go back much beyond that of Cypriots.

You can't compare the Indigenous people of Australia and North America with the GCs and Cyprus. They lost their countries a few hundred years ago when such illegalities were not condemned.

Also, they lost out to more advanced cultures . . . something that is clearly not the case with our Barbaric Invaders. :lol:

Above all, Viewpoint, this remark shows your lack of shame and your true evil nature since you condone the loss of land by the Indigenous People of Australia and North America and are stupid enough to think you can achieve the same and eradicate the GCs.

Phoney!
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Postby free_cyprus » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:42 pm

phoenix wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:You do exactly that, the Aborginies and Native Americans history goes back further than yours look what happened to them.


Their Histories do not go back much beyond that of Cypriots.

You can't compare the Indigenous people of Australia and North America with the GCs and Cyprus. They lost their countries a few hundred years ago when such illegalities were not condemned.

Also, they lost out to more advanced cultures . . . something that is clearly not the case with our Barbaric Invaders. :lol:

Above all, Viewpoint, this remark shows your lack of shame and your true evil nature since you condone the loss of land by the Indigenous People of Australia and North America and are stupid enough to think you can achieve the same and eradicate the GCs.


hahahaahahah they lost to a more advance civilisation lol hahahahahha dont make me laugh

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Postby shahmaran » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Piratis wrote:What I say about Turkey being a torn country is all facts VP. At the very least what is now eastern Turkey will be part of Kurdistan very soon.


Keep dreaming my friend, do you really believe that the army will ever let that happen? No politician nor any Kurd would have the power to stop them either! America will have to come down here and take it personally :lol:
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Postby phoenix » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:54 pm

free_cyprus wrote:
phoenix wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:You do exactly that, the Aborginies and Native Americans history goes back further than yours look what happened to them.


Their Histories do not go back much beyond that of Cypriots.

You can't compare the Indigenous people of Australia and North America with the GCs and Cyprus. They lost their countries a few hundred years ago when such illegalities were not condemned.

Also, they lost out to more advanced cultures . . . something that is clearly not the case with our Barbaric Invaders. :lol:

Above all, Viewpoint, this remark shows your lack of shame and your true evil nature since you condone the loss of land by the Indigenous People of Australia and North America and are stupid enough to think you can achieve the same and eradicate the GCs.
Phoney!


hahahaahahah they lost to a more advance civilisation lol hahahahahha dont make me laugh



free_cyprus . . . . do not misquote me when it's right there :roll:

I said a more advanced CULTURE . . . meaning tools, medicine etc.

I did not say a more advanced CIVILISATION . . . meaning morals etc.

You can stop laughing now!
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